Double fatality-read this and not be another statistic

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RUn2it
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Double fatality-read this and not be another statistic

Post by RUn2it » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:41 am

The Halloween accident could have been avoided if the driver was aware of an anomoly of off-road navigation that I have learned from 33 years of 2, 3, and 4 wheeling (and flying) at Dumont. At mid day do not ride/drive with the sun to your back unless you are constantly looking and/or steering left and right because with the sun behind and ABOVE your line of vision you lose depth and topography perception because you can't see shadows in the dunes and without foilage or rocks there's nothing left for your brain to interpret speed and distance. Next time at Dumont mid day, sun at your back and look at your shadow and and over/past it. I learned this "back in the day" when I could be at Dumont for a week and the only tracks were ours. with the sand totally smooth it was tricky any direction mid day.And all you LT guys, try to divide your lights so some are above and below your line of sight. Here's proof, at night at camp take a flashlite above your head and shine it at a spot down away from you 10-15 feet, what do you see? You know something is there, now point it at the same place start lowering it till it's waist high, as soon as it gets below eye level you start seeing bumps and contours. With all your light above you over shoot things(no shadows) and all your light below you freak on the little rollers, Ever night dune in a sandstorm (without crashing) and hear your engine revving so you know you're moving only to discover you're going sideways down the hill? I had a buggy with front spokes, would keep an eye on the right front one to see how fast it's turning. On my quads I take a yellow paint pen and draw a line from the razor over to the wheel on the inside of both front wheels, yes, I have gone down comp sideways in a sand storm. Whew, got carried away, supposed to be loading up for Dumont but after Halloween I kept thinking "could I have prevented this" I've been flying at Dumont and watched a guy roll his buggy THEN get killed trying to tow it back to camp. Anyway I've recently been camping in between the sand bar fingers, but next to the one closest to the dunes about halfway down, Halloween the Dumont Dune Riders DDR (big balloon) were next to me to the south. I'm in a 33ft pusher with 2- 8ft long solar panels raised up on the roof with a white enclosed behind if anyone want's to blab, wrench or experiment or even ride.
A regular Dumont dude since 1973. If you see a LT500 (quadzilla) at night with an HID headlight and a helmet light I will be on it (I hope)

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Post by crash » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:03 am

Thanks for your input. If you look at some of the other threads, you will see that this is what I am guessing happened also. :cry:

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Post by LoBuck » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:21 pm

Welcome to the board RUn2it. :D

Good advice on mid-day duning, and it applies to all dunes.
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Post by Ross & Alice » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:11 pm

Good post, good take.

I have found with age, I have to run the dunes slower because my eyes don't adjust to the sun as good as they did just a few years ago.

The goggles withthe photo sensitive tint, that is, the kind that darken as it gets brighter outside, have helped a lot.
Plus reduced speed, and no drinking or painkillers to gain more reasoning, quicker reaction time.
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Post by HappyHour » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:44 am

I've been dunning there since 1999, and I have come to realization that when I'm dunning, no matter what time of day, I take it easy. My rule of thumb is, if I don't see what's on the other side of anything, I slow way down until I see what over there and NEVER go blindsided over, thru, or under anything. Some may call me a wimp, wuss, or a chicken, but you know what, I like pulling my rail back onto my trailer the same way I pulled it off............. 8)
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Post by Dune Shredder » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:47 am

Here here on that last post.Some may call me a wimp, wuss, or a chicken, but you know what, I like pulling my rail back onto my trailer the same way I pulled it off............. 8)[/quote]
If an endangerd spiecs eats another is it endangerd

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Post by Dune Shredder » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:50 am

Dune Shredder wrote:Here here on that last post.Some may call me a wimp, wuss, or a chicken, but you know what, I like pulling my rail back onto my trailer the same way I pulled it off............. 8)
[/quote]
If an endangerd spiecs eats another is it endangerd

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Post by Dune Shredder » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:52 am

darn i screwed up this quote thingy so lpease don't take offense
If an endangerd spiecs eats another is it endangerd

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Post by crash » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:34 pm

Absolutely good advice. I think, however, after hearing people talk about the area and after looking at the topo maps, there may be a special circumstance here where the terrain looks flat, but has a bowl that drops down and doesn't rise up very much. This gives the illusion that the relatively flat desert is continuing, when in fact it drops away. Really the only way to be safe in that situation is to KNOW THE AREA. Especially before going very fast. I understand the driver was a VERY experienced duner. All very tragic.

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Post by HappyHour » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:44 pm

I'm not demeaning the tragic loss of life and any way, shape, or form. I believe I know where the accident was, and I will admit, that if you don't know about that paritcular area of the dunes, that section can look decieving. I was just saying that when I dune, I'm not out there to impress anybody, nor am I out there to set any land speed records. I do jump on the throttle on occassion, but I am very selective when I do. But at the end of the day, this was a tragic loss and my thoughts go out to the families.
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Post by crash » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:29 am

I understand and did not mean to attack your comments in any way. Just add to them. Your view is one of maturity. Unfortunately, many grown adults turn into selfish little children when they get close to the dunes. Wait a minute......maybe acting like a kid again is what it's all about. Anyway, we all need to keep things in perspective......even when duning like we did when we were kids. :D Thanks for your posts.

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Post by Ross & Alice » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:58 am

HappyHour wrote:I'm not demeaning the tragic loss of life and any way, shape, or form. I believe I know where the accident was, and I will admit, that if you don't know about that paritcular area of the dunes, that section can look decieving. I was just saying that when I dune, I'm not out there to impress anybody, nor am I out there to set any land speed records. I do jump on the throttle on occassion, but I am very selective when I do. But at the end of the day, this was a tragic loss and my thoughts go out to the families.
Very well said.

In riding with a group, it amazes me other riders have to take a few blind risks to pass others & be ahead of the pack.
My point is safety, then fun.
I don't have to be first or fastest, just alive and able to get my family home.
But speed is fun if, measured and cautious.

I get dirty looks if I fall behind where the dunes are blind and subject to accident.
May be because I'm sober and the other riders are tank'd, damfino.
I have no personal crash or injury stories to tell.
Broken collarbones, a handelbar up their kilt,, most have tales to tell.

Fatal or serious accidents should be review'd by everyone that rides to study the cause, and put forward personal measures to prevent it from happening to you.
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Post by RUn2it » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:04 am

Crash hit the nail on the head, there's a gradual and increasing rise from the flats up the dunes at that particular area with almost no rise at the edge of the bowl which though not real wide is very steep and pretty deep, the kind you can come down from the top of the dunes for quite a distance and shoot into it with alot of G-force, unfortunately the victims approach offered no visual or seat of the pants clues to make an evasive manuever that time of day, as I had a friend go off the exact same point at mid day years ago and I revisted the site then to see what lesson(s), if any, I could learn. If I didn't know exactly where I was riding, not paying attention, I could go off it next time I rode mid day there. It's deceiving with the sun above and behind you when looking up an incline set of dunes, I've done the "rag doll" at night on absolute smooth dunes on a quad, looks flat but suddenly slopes to the left or right, the quad quickly leans that direction and nearly pulls the bars from your hands while your body follows, found myself hanging from one side of the bars, for instance, my left hand and foot on bar and peg with the right foot on the rear LEFT fender, right hand in the air like a bull rider and facing nearly backwards, yee-haw. Everytime the suns at my back back I'm thinking "there's a drop-off ... there's a drop-off" and still get the crap scared out of me eventually, put Einstein in a house of mirrors and see how smart he claims to be with that bump on his forehead. Anyway, keep your eyes open and be ready.
A regular Dumont dude since 1973. If you see a LT500 (quadzilla) at night with an HID headlight and a helmet light I will be on it (I hope)

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