New tow vehicle, What to get

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New tow vehicle, What to get

Post by SJP12 »

I'm looking into getting a tow vehicle. I'm a life long CHEVY guy but would look in to the ford maybe. I want to get something that would be able to do it all, i also plan on lifting it and getting 35-36" tires. Lets hear what you think? Oh yeah i just test drove a CHEVY HD duramax this past weekend..................I like it.

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Post by FLYING TIGER »

We picked the GMC HD because of the Jake brake/tow/haul Allison trans. The wife really loves this feature when shes driving.

Other brands you have to go expensive aftermarket for the Jake Brake feature, plus you don't get the cool HD Allison 5 speed trans.

Bob, the service manager at Guy Schmit GMC in Glendale, says they've sold dozens of the Duramax's, and have had no problems. Owners love 'um.

You'll be happy with what ever you choose I bet,, the big three are makeing their trucks better than ever.

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Post by quad1100 »

This is an interesting topic for me as well. I am in the market for the same truck and had my sights set on the GMC HD, however, after sitting in both the GMC and Ford crew cabs back to back, the Ford had a lot more leg room in the back seats in particular. But I sure do like that power train on the GMC.

One other thing I heard recently is that Ford might be getting a Cat motor in a few years, but I have not heard what trans they are going with?

I guess my main draw back on the Ford is the transmission; I have had a few friends now that have had their transmissions go out on them.

Be interested to hear others opinions...

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Post by DUNEZRUNNER »

I was looking online the other day and read that Ford is coming out with a new 6 liter powerstroke mated to a new 5 speed auto trans. They said that this combo is supposed to put out best in class power, be quieter, and more efficient. Anybody else heard about this????

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Post by Dunepilot »

6.0L V8, Direct Injection, 32 valve, Powerstroke Diesel.

325hp @3300rpm.

550lb/ft of torque @2000rpm.

5spd TorqShift auto trans. (15% lighter than the Allison)

Variable Response Turbocharging. Automatically adjusts and optimizes airflow within the turbo for better response, hill climbing, high altitude performance and towing.

Higher GVWR and GCWR ratings.

20% lower emissions.

20+% reduced noise levels.

Supposed to be available this Winter.

I'm sold. ;-)




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Post by Ron @ Lazer Star »

quote:I'm sold. ;-)



DunePilot

They are just playing catch up now that GM has been kickin their butts for the last 2 years. Rumor has it that either mid 2003 or 2004 GM will "turn the knob" and bump the Dmax to compete with the Ford. First year Ford tranny vs. a proven Allison design? Sounds scary to me!

Got just about 17K on my Dmax and I love it. It gets better every day. I'm just watching all the BBS's to see which programmer/box produces the most power. So far the Juice box seems to be the one to have. They are getting mid to low 14's at nearly 90MPH in the 1/4, stock Mustang GT's are no match for 6000 lbs. 4x4 trucks!

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Post by SANDPSYCHO »

For years now Ford was the big dog on the block with the Powerstroke, their only competition being Dodge. Now that Chevy has stepped up with the Duramax, Ford has got some areas of concern. The biggest being what sits between the engine and driveshaft. As long as Ford and Chevy keep trying to out do the other we are going to see stronger and better trucks, it almost reminds me of the early 80s when Honda and Kawi cared about building the best ATV.

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Post by Winston Cup »

In my opinion you can't really go wrong with either a Ford or a Chevy when properly set up right from the factory. I prefer the Chevy nowadays because it feels right to me. As far as torque and HP numbers, I can take the same motor to four different dyno's and get different numbers everytime. Get what feels right for you, just make sure either one you pick is set up properly for what you want it to do, that's the most important thing.

Eric, it was my understanding Ford was developing a six speed, did that get shelved?

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Post by victor »

I am confused on the whole "competition" issue. does Chevy (GMC) have ANYTHING to compete with the F550 ? i have looked at the F550 and to me it seems to be "THE" pulling vehicle. not even the chevy 3500HD compares. and those dont even come in 4X4. now dont get me wrong, im not putting ANY of the trucks down. i have a GMC 4X4 duelly myself. but if i was looking for a new tow vehicle, i would seriously be thinking about the F550.

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Post by Dunepilot »

Guy wrote: quote:Eric, it was my understanding Ford was developing a six speed, did that get shelved?

Can't say...

Ron wrote: quote:They are just playing catch up now that GM has been kickin their butts for the last 2 years.

Depends on what you are referring to, HP or torque? HP: Yes. Torque: No. The 7.3L is rated at 525lb/ft and the Ford still has higher available GCW ratings...

Both manufacturers make great trucks, I think it boils down to what you like.

Regarding the chips...be sure to do your homework on them, they are not all they're cracked up to be. Regardless, if you do any chips, get a gauge package so you can monitor temps. Over 1250 EGT or 250 trans temp, better get out of the loud pedal and let it cool down or you'll be melting something and it isn't covered when it breaks... It would also be a very good idea to service the vehicle more frequently, ie...trans, engine oil and filters.

Victor wrote: quote:does Chevy (GMC) have ANYTHING to compete with the F550 ?

Yes and no. They have HD cab and chassis packages but nothing approaching the GCWR Ford has available.



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Post by quad1100 »

quote:i would seriously be thinking about the F550

Yeah, if I was made of money I would probably go with the F650, but I have to drive this truck everyday, so I have to think about the practicality of it as well, and not having a $70k truck sitting around that only gets 2500 miles a year put on it.

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Post by Ron @ Lazer Star »

quote:I am confused on the whole "competition" issue. does Chevy (GMC) have ANYTHING to compete with the F550 ?

Yes, the just released C4500 and C5500 Chassis. But just like the Ford they don't come with beds, you have to find your own. They aren't based on the pickup body either, but do offer both the 8.1 and the Dmax with the Allison. The C6500, 7500, and 8500 are offered with the 8.1, the New Dmax I-6, or a Cat...

http://www.gmc.com/commercial/medium/ko ... kodiak.pdf

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Post by quad1100 »

Hey does anyone know if GMC offers the "4-wheel steering" in the HD 4x4 yet?

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Post by V8rail »

You can't get a "Jake Brake" for the Chevy or GMC 2500HD and 3500 (FAQ at duramaxdiesel.com)

Then go to a weight station and weight your trailer fully loaded. You will be surprised how fast you have overloaded. (Remember all 1 tons have a GCWR rating of 20,000# to 22,000#) When you drive overloaded and you have an accident, you are in big trouble.

The Chassis for the F650 and F750 are build in a joint venture with Navistar. They are the same like the International 4000 series

BTW when you get a MDT stay away from the Allison, they are junk

A good board about MDT is at http://www.rvnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ultima ... forum;f=12

proud owner of a International 4900 with DT466 HT (620 #feet of Torque), Roadranger six speed, GVWR 25500#, GCWR 40000# .....

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Post by FLYING TIGER »

The engine brakeing tow haul mode is the most popular feature on the new GM trucks from the owners I've talked to.

I havent had to go the very expensive add Banks ons for more power and engine brakeing,, tons of power and engine brakeing came standard with the truck.

Dropping down from Yucca Valley into Whitewater, a killer grade, with either my 8ooo lbs trailer or 5000lb boat is such easy trailering my 16 yr old daughter usually does the driving.

The loadcapacities are outstanding.
Last edited by FLYING TIGER on Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by quad1100 »

quote:Nonsense,The engine brakeing (Jake brake) tow haul mode is the most popular feature on the new GM trucks

Actually the "Jake Brake" is a way of slowing the engine down using the engines compression, not the transmission, also widely known as a Jacobs Engine Brake. I believe the GMC HD actually does transmission breaking, which cannot technically be called a "Jake Break"?

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Post by V8rail »

quote:

Nonsense,The engine brakeing (Jake brake) tow haul mode is the most popular feature on the new GM trucks.



GM own Duramax site :

http://duramaxdiesel.com/11_faq/index.htm


near the end :

quote:
Q: Can you get a "Jake Brake" (exhaust brake) for the Chevy or GMC 2500HD and 3500 pickups?
A: An exhaust brake is not available for the Duramax through General Motors. After-market companies may offer this, but keep in mind that any modifications to your truck may void your warranty


but I think you are at this as a "Jake Break" :
quote: Q: How does the grade braking feature on the Allison transmission work?
A: Grade braking is a feature of the 1000 Series transmission in which the transmission automatically selects the proper gear to match the vehicle's maximum braking effort for maximum braking effort of the vehicle. It's an intuitive feature that automatically downshifts to help slow the vehicle when hauling or pulling heavy loads down long, steep grades

quote:
The loadcapacities are outstanding.


Quote out of the RV-BBS I gave you :

quote:A fully loaded pickup will average between 7,500 - 8,500 pounds, depending on which brand, 4 x 4, diesel, and how much stuff you load into it.

I believe the 2002 Ford and Chevy are each rated at 22,000 GCWR. The most a 2002 Dodge can handle is 21,000 pounds. I am not 100% certain these are accurate so I would verify all these ratings. The 2003 Dodge will be rated up to 23,000 GCWR.

GCWR means Gross Combined Weight Rating. The sum of your fully loaded truck and trailer cannot exceed this amount.

And an accident with over 22000# and you are f@#$%$ in CA ....



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Post by AlxCook »

The Jake is an engine brake. It was developed for the roads of the west coast in the early 1950's. It was orginally offered to Cummins for purchase back then, but Cummins turned it down because they were working on their own engine brake. Cummins made a big mistake on that one. Currently, just about every big rig has some kind of engine/tranny brake.

On another note, the only reason the Duramax puts out more horses is because of the tranny. For example, the Cummins (Dodge engine) engine, in Marine uses, produces over 350 horses, but for the street it is around 200 horsepower. My point is that desiel engines are very simple and it is easy to turn up the horsepower, the tranny is the weakest link. They over-build the block so that they can use it in mulitple uses. All you need to do is pump more fuel and air, and you get more horsepower.

This year it is the duramax, next year it might be Ford, and the next year it will be Dodge. Just like a computer, it will be outdone by a new model that will be better next year. Buy what you are comfortable with.

Also, if you overheat a desiel, the engine is done. It will have to be over-hauled.

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Post by thor »

the 4 wheel steering I read will be out in 04
I have the 8.1 and love it but if I was to do it over it would be a Dmax MAYBE the new 6.0 power stroke depending on the first year or 2

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Post by Ron @ Lazer Star »

You can get the 1500HD Crewcab with the 4W steering in 03. It has the 6.0 motor and 4 speed auto and a 8600 GVWR...

If you didn't hear the new 03 Chevy has a facelift. They bascially put a toned down Avalance front end on ALL the trucks. The HD's dont have the larger hood and grill anymore but they do have the taller bumper. I haven't seen one yet, so I'm reserving my judgment.

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Post by victor »

the F650 and F750 do not come with the conventional cab as the F550 F450 F350 and F250. what i meant was are there any other trucks IN THAT CLASS (pick-up) that compare?

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Post by 909LABS »

To respond on the original question, here is my opinion. I have driven daily 6 chevy/gmc trucks from an 83 s-10,86 k-5,88 k-5, 91 c1500,98 yukon,99 c1500, 2001 2500hd. I finally stopped screwing around with half azz tow rigs with the 2500hd, I thought. It is also an inbetweener. Sure it looks great and has all the posh comforts, but it did not tow that well, and the overload springs are way to harsh. I bought a my first Ford in feb. 2002 f-250 4x4 crew cab power stroke, and could not be happier. It is a great tow vehicle and has gobs of power. It is bland-generic compared to the Chevy. The fit and finish sucks in comparison to Gm. If you want a true truck that is built and rides like a truck buy the Ford. If you do not tow, your girl is going to drive it or you have thought of buying a denali,navigator,escalade, buy the Chevy, its a great car. My 2 cents.

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Post by quad1100 »

quote:I bought a my first Ford in feb. 2002 f-250 4x4 crew cab power stroke

Why did you get the F250 over the F350 if you were buying this for a tow vehicle?

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Post by Spyder »

Here is a little diesel 101...

Cummins Engine Company founder, Clessie Cummins, originally designed an engine
retarder (brake), some 40 years ago. Jacobs Brake Company used the design and
began manufacturing an engine brake, which was named the "Jake Brake". Cummins
now markets its own brake named the "CBRAKE", which ironically is now
manufactured by Jacobs Brake Company, for Cummins. Since there is no 'engine
brake' made for Cummins B & C series engines, an exhaust brake is used as a
vehicle retarder.

The principal theory and actual operation of an engine retarder brake is that it
turns the diesel engine into an air compressor. Rather than store the energy of
the pressurized air in the cylinder, created by the piston coming up on the
compression stroke, the engine brake retarder mechanism hydraulically opens the
exhaust valve near the end of the upward piston stroke. It also restricts fuel
to the injector at the same time.

The stored energy in the cylinder is released to the atmosphere so that when the
piston descends on what would normally be the power stroke, no pressure remains
in the cylinder to act on the piston. Thus, the energy transferred from the
driving wheels, into the compressed and highly heated air (through gravity or
forward momentum of the vehicle) goes mostly out the exhaust pipe, with a
portion entering the cooling water from heat transfer through the cylinder
walls.

The engine brake on a diesel engine is activated with the drivers foot off the
accelerator and the clutch engaged. When activated, the brake hydraulically
opens the exhaust valves near top dead center of the compression stroke.
With the brake active, the piston does work compressing the air in the cylinder,
and then this compressed air is released through the exhaust system. It
basically turns a power producing engine into a power absorbing air compressor.

An exhaust brake also retards the engine, but in a different way. The exhaust
brake is a butterfly valve that closes off the exhaust pipe to create "back
pressure" on the diesel engine, during downhill operation. When an exhaust brake
is used with an automatic transmission, the braking effort will be about 80%
compared to a manual direct drive transmission. We hope this helps to explain
the two types of engine retarders.

For more specific details on engine brake operation and applications, you may
contact the Jacobs Brake Company website:
http://www.jakebrake.com/products/theory/jaketheo.htm


I found this on a website about "Engine retarders" I hope it helps.



Robert McMillin"Get up, Stand up, Don't Give Up the Fight..." -Bob Marley



Edited by - spyder on 07/11/2002 10:38:44 AM

victor

Post by victor »

Hey Alex Cook, you mentioned over heating a diesel and its done. how easy is it to over heat a diesel? i have never owned a deisel but since i have ALLWAYS had an over heating problem with my 91 GMC 454, i am thinking about it. i even went to the 502 and still it ran hot. though i am one that feels anything over 220 degrees and its startin to cook. i have done quite a few things to the truck to help keep it cool, but with a 38' fifth wheel, i still cringe when them inclines come up. not to mention trying to get to the river in the summer. i was under the impression that deisels actually like the heat to a certian extent. is that true?

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Post by AlxCook »

I would imagine it is as easy to overheat a desiel as a gas engine. The desiel engine doesn't respond as well to overheating as say a gas engine does.

I also agree on the true meaning of a truck. Chevys tend to be more car like and Fords tend to be truck like. By the way, the difference between a F250 and F350 isn't much. I would buy the F250 and put air bags on it, that way you can carry the load of a F350 and still get the ride of a F250. Just my two cents.

Great info Robert, I am going off the top of my head, but I think Clessie Cummins left Cummins because of the Jake Brake and started a new company (Jake Brake). Clessie was always the brains behind Cummins, never the money. The powers of Cummins didn't want to buy into Clessie's brake system, go figure. My father and Grandfather all worked for Cummins, so the stories get a little blured. There is a book about the history Cummins, I believe it is called "The engine that could".

Did you know that Cummins fielded a desiel car in the Indy 500 for a couple of years??

Alex Cook

Edited by - A. Cook on 07/11/2002 4:31:44 PM

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Post by Dunepilot »

Originally posted BUT not quoted by V8Rail: quote:I believe the 2002 Ford and Chevy are each rated at 22,000 GCWR.

It is actually higher than that quote. Depending on which model F-Series Super Duty is choosen, ie: F250, F350, F450 or F550, and which towing/hauling package is selected, the GCWR goes up to 26,000#.

IF the High Capacity Trailer Tow Package is chosen, available only on the F450 & F550, the GCWR goes to 30,000#.

The F650 and F750 GCWRs go up to: 60,000#.

Additionally and as a side note. Ford does NOT offer a pick up box for the F450 or F550, but some dealers are, most likely through Fontain (sp?) and/or Centurion.

These are Ford Super Duty pick up boxes that are mounted to the F450 and/or F550 chassis. The fit and finish is very good and would a great option to have.



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Post by RobC »

It's harder to overheat a diesel. The thing you have to watch out for is the exhaust gas temperature. If that gets too high (over 1250 degrees) you can ruin the turbo. That's why I put a pyrometer on my F350, along with a boost guage and a tranny temp guage. Anyways, if the temp starts climbing, you just back off the throttle a little, and it will drop down pretty quickly.

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Post by 909LABS »

Quad100, The difference in the 250 and 350 is just some different blocks in the rear end that give it the tail high, front low billy bob look. Save the money and do air bags,exhaust, chip, whatever. Another caveat on the chevy. The front wheel wells are tiny. If you plan on putting a larger tire on you must trim fender wells and crank torsion bars or get a bone jarring lift kit. I know most people on this board cannot leave anything stock so this may be a factor in purchase.

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Post by victor »

can anyone tell me the differances of the FORD transmissions? i see that the F550 has an extremely larger rear end then that of the F450 F350 ect. but the transmissions seem to look the same. can this be right? i feel the trans is one of if not the most important component of the drive train for heavy towing. i have a 1991 GMC 3500 that has the 4L80E and i am in constant worry that its not going to hold up when i tow the 38' 5th wheel. i did put a external cooler, larger capacity pan and temp guage, and it seems to be staying cool for the most part. but i do see it climb up in the 220-230 range. as far as i can tell there are no upgrades for my application. was told the 4L80E is the strongest i can get for that truck. does Ford offer an upgrade for their 350's , like maybe the 550's tranny installed on a 350? the powerstroke engines all seem to be the same in all the 350-450-550's. but i would think that to get the GVWR and GCWR up that the tranny's must be upgraded.

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Post by Dunepilot »

V8Rail said: quote:The Chassis for the F650 and F750 are build in a joint venture with Navistar. They are the same like the International 4000 series

Current and past F650s & F750s are unique chassis' and are not part of the Ford/International joint venture. The only common element (relatively speaking, as there are some engine component differences) is the availability of the 7.3L Powerstroke. International offers the same engine, but they call it something else. Like DTxxx or something...

909labs wrote: quote:Quad100, The difference in the 250 and 350 is just some different blocks in the rear end, et al...

Those would be the most obvious differences, but there are significantly more than just lift blocks for the rear axle that differentiate the F250 and F350.

Victor wrote: quote:can anyone tell me the differances of the FORD transmissions?....et al... the transmissions seem to look the same

For the most part the (automatic) transmission case (housing) is the same for the 250, 350, 450 and 550, but the internal components are different between the models as well as the buyer specified, option content.

Victor also wrote: quote:I put an external cooler, larger capacity pan and temp guage...et al...but i do see it climb up in the 220-230 range

What you've done is excellent. Larger pan, ie..more fluid, external cooler, ie...lower more consistant operating temps, and a temp gauge...VERY GOOD. 220-230F is ok, lower temps would be better. 250 start slowing down, reduce the load, let it cool, trans is getting too hot. 270, fluid might start boiling out. 280, your trans is probably toast.

If you do not know already, you need to know what the GCWR is for your truck as well as the weight of the loaded trailer you are towing. You do not want to be going over the GCWR, when you do, you're asking for problems.

Hope that helps some...





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Post by V8rail »

quote:
Current and past F650s & F750s are unique chassis' and are not part of the Ford/International joint venture. The only common element (relatively speaking, as there are some engine component differences) is the availability of the 7.3L Powerstroke. International offers the same engine, but they call it something else. Like DTxxx or something...


You are correct, the Blue Diamond trucks should start soon. But it will not make that big of a difference. Cab will be the same (for the Ford), International will come out with the Class 6&7 4200 and they will be very similar. Axles can be already the same ...
And yes the Powerstroke is a Navistar engine and is also used (in less HP versions) for the 4700 and the new Powerstroke will be in the 4200. You can find the engines at :
http://www.internationaldelivers.com/engine/
The VT365 is the new Powerstroke, T444 is the old one ....

quote:If you do not know already, you need to know what the GCWR is for your truck as well as the weight of the loaded trailer you are towing. You do not want to be going over the GCWR, when you do, you're asking for problems.


Exactly what I tried to say and many 3/4 and 1 tons you see out there are overloaded ...

I like my DT466 and Roadranger 6 speed

Thomas

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Edited by - v8rail on 07/12/2002 10:55:04 PM

victor

Post by victor »

Dunepilot... thanks for the info. and as for the tranny temps, it runs mostly at 150 to 160. even when towing it will stay down there, but when on long upgrades i have seen it get up to 220 to 230F, but will come down somewhat quikly as soon as the incline is done. i have not yet actually weighed the entire load, but i am sure i am pushing the limit on this truck. ie the questioning about the F550. the goal is set and hoping to accomplish it as soon as possible. until then the GMC is going to continue to be a workhorse. the new 502 is breaking in nicely and running strong and the change to 4.56 r/p from 4.10 seems to be helping nicely aswell. so it looks like i will be seeing you all in the dunes for yet another wonderful season.

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Post by MattV »

The new Ford is also supposed to have an available hydraulic launch assist/regenerative braking system. I read an article on it, it sounds quite cool. They expect a significant gain in fuel economy and better off the line acceleration, as well as longer brake life.

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Post by Dunepilot »

V8RAIL: Thanks for the engine identification clairification...I thought it was a DT something...

quote:Exactly what I tried to say and many 3/4 and 1 tons you see out there are overloaded...

Yep...know exactly what you mean. Problem is made worse when the truck is lifted to the sky, trailer is hooked up, rear end drags on the ground (figuratively speaking, of course, I'm sure you know the type) and the front end pointing to the sky.

It is extremely important, if nothing more than being safe, than to properly balance the load within the trailer and ensure the tow vehicle and trailer are level and on the same plane. I've seen too many people with improperly loaded tow vehicles and trailers. What they've done is unloaded the front end of the tow vehicle, then they wonder why they can't stop, steer and question why the vehicle wanders in the lane.... DUH!...the front end does at least 75% of the braking effort and for most vehicles, it accomplishes the steering function too. Without properly balancing the load, the system has been rendered ineffective, thus endangering themselves, their family and other motorists around them. High speed plays another factor in this little game too. I won't get into writing about the recklessness of towing in excess of 80mph in one of the aforementioned overloaded and unbalanced units.

Regarding the Ford/International JV; the public will never see any product from Ford or International with the Blue Diamond, LLC label or badging. The vehicles will be badged for their respective companies.

The only Blue Diamond label you'll probably ever see will be from the almond company of the same name.

VICTOR: Glad I could help...keep your trans fluid red, clean and cool. Heat is the number one cause of transmission failure.

I like that 502! Very cool, although I wouldn't want the fuel bills.

Matt V wrote: quote:The new Ford is also supposed to have an available hydraulic launch assist/regenerative braking system

That system was part of the TONKA Concept truck shown at the auto shows to showcase technologies Ford is working on. It will not be in production with the new 6.0L Powerstroke.



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victor

Post by victor »

yes, i too am not a fan of the fuel bills, but i do have to mention that with the new 502 and the Edelbrock multiport injection system, the truck actually gets better miliage now than it did with 454. i havnt yet calculated it but i definatley go further on a tank. (loaded or not).

now for another question...

(same truck) i installed an external oil cooler in front of the radiator. i would think it holds nearly an extra quart or so when sytem is running. would i want to add an extra quart of oil to compensate for the added volume? it seems the cooler would drain back down to the pan at shut down. i am keeping the oil at the dipstick line, but am i running a quart low while driving? and would the added quart of oil be a bad thing at start up causing the crank to slosh the oil for that moment. or will it still clear? ok ok so there are more than just one question.
thanks again for all the help.

... victor

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Post by Dunepilot »

IMO...you would want add enough oil to fill the system, if it's a qt, then add a qt.

Do you know the cooler drains back into the pan or are you speculating?

Personally, I am not aware of any oil coolers, mounted in front, behind, beside, on top or underneath a radiator, which drain back into the oil pan. This isn't to say there isn't one out there and you have it.

Perhaps you can try to contact the supplier or better yet, the manufacturer of the cooler and ask them the volume requirements as well as if there is any drain back.

Maybe someone else has other suggestions...



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victor

Post by victor »

Yes, i am only speculating on the fact that the cooler is higher than the lines and pan. i am just thinking the gravity thing.

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Post by dla »

quote:
If you didn't hear the new 03 Chevy has a facelift. They bascially put a toned down Avalance front end on ALL the trucks. The HD's dont have the larger hood and grill anymore but they do have the taller bumper. I haven't seen one yet, so I'm reserving my judgment.



I have always been partial to Chevy's and GMC's but now I'm not so sure. I would have guessed the designer of the Avalanche would have been fired, not promoted to ruin the Silverado...



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victor

Post by victor »

after seeing that, i dont feel so bad driving my 91 GMC with peeling paint and all. NO. not a fan of THAT new look at all. JUST MY OPINION FOLKS.

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Post by Winston Cup »

They're only using that on the Chevy versions, not the GMC's.

Personally, I don't think it looks that bad, kinda cool to me.

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Post by dla »

The GMC's are getting their own little facelift as well...



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Post by MattV »

The information I saw indicated that the HLA/RB system should be in production by late 2003 or early 2004.

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Post by RobC »

The Chevys are nice, but they need to look more like a truck and less like a car.


Save the Dunes!!

Edited by - robc on 07/15/2002 07:45:07 AM

victor

Post by victor »

i agree. trucks should look and WORK like trucks. though i think i got it figured out. think about it. we get all riled up with the "wants" and do all the research, comparisons, shopping around, talk with the guys about it. but when we get down to the dealership and turn to the boss (wife) and say, see honey pretty nice huh? and she says, "that ones CUTE lets get that one" and GM is banking on it.

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Post by Winston Cup »

quote: dla; The GMC's are getting their own little facelift as well...

That's the same front end the GMC's currently have. The lack of chrome on the front end may just be a difference in the options package on that particular model, other than that there's no difference I can see between that one and my '02 GMC. I personally like the look of the GMC's, and I know they are great trucks from experience.

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Post by duneyfz »

I didn't see where you said what you were towing. If it's a 5th wheel, don't get too carried away with the lift. If it's a big trailer any of these 1-tons are not enough. It doesn't take much to get to 12,500lbs and some of these new fancy trailers at 18,000lbs.

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Post by DesertDogs »

Good thing that NISSAN trucks don't come in pink or charteruse or salmon......or all of us guys would be ^^*)_+($*#@+
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Post by SandCarFan »

Victor also wrote: quote:I put an external cooler, larger capacity pan and temp guage...et al...but i do see it climb up in the 220-230 range

What you've done is excellent. Larger pan, ie..more fluid, external cooler, ie...lower more consistant operating temps, and a temp gauge...VERY GOOD. 220-230F is ok, lower temps would be better. 250 start slowing down, reduce the load, let it cool, trans is getting too hot. 270, fluid might start boiling out. 280, your trans is probably toast.
When I was at Banks having some of their hardware installed on our F350, with the added hardware, they told me to back off the throttle if the trans temp went over 200 degrees. At 220+ you start to risk ruining your tranny.

My temp usually runs about 150 on the freeway including climbing I8 east of San Diego. It usually runs a bit hotter in city traffic, again something Banks said would happen.

The only time it went over 170 was while driving through the sand at Gordon's getting to a campsite a mile from the flats area entrance. Using low range on the way out of the sand resulted in the tranny temp staying in the 150 range.

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Post by TroyB »

Check out edmunds.com it will help in purhcasing a truck. You will find that the F350 is rated the highest of all trucks

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