Death at Dumont ?? Any other info??

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Sharon @ Car Craft Inc.
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Death at Dumont ?? Any other info??

Post by Sharon @ Car Craft Inc. »

Just reported to us the untimely death of Jay Moss of Moss Motors and possibly "Chadwick" of B&G motors??? Jay as scene and Chadwick at LV hospital.
Ed......HONESTLY........the Turbo did NOT make a popping noise going oh-so-slowly up that hill...........

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Post by HappyHour »

Just reported on Fox 11 news tonight thay the two guys were racing up the hill and then went head on into another hill. Also said that the one guy died at the scene. Fox 11 reported that the belts in his buggy gave way and became loose. A very unfortunate accident. I don't like seeing reports like this one, my condolenses to the families.
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Post by thelast929 »

Jay Moss of Riverside died.
Thread post in different forum
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Post by RichB »

There's been a bunch of these type deaths over the years and most of them relvolve around seat belts giving way because of poor design. I've seen many buggies with the seatbelts just fastened around/under the seat itself and I've seen a lot that were fastened to weak support.

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Post by r erfert »

RichB wrote:There's been a bunch of these type deaths over the years and most of them relvolve around seat belts giving way because of poor design. I've seen many buggies with the seatbelts just fastened around/under the seat itself and I've seen a lot that were fastened to weak support.
((MY condolences TO THE FAMILIES))

YES it's true...Seat belts...buy the best.
Flying UP a hill or over a hill is also a factor.
Once the wheels leave the ground...You are no longer in control.
Speed is a factor.
Control is a factor.
Safety is a factor.

Makes me want to take another look at my buggy.

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Post by Ross & Alice »

Just my 2 cents:

When at Dumont:
Always assume the crest on a blind dune is a razorback. 90% of them are.

Never cross over the top of a razor or a blind dune where you don't positively know whats on the other side.

This is the case on any size dune, Even the tiny ones.

I know some do with success, but eventually they will have a serious problem.
It's a kin to going off Boulder dam is some of the big dune cases.

I feel really bad about this incident.
Last edited by Ross & Alice on Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RichB »

Ross agree with ya totally. I also forgot to mention how terrible that is.

A few years ago there was a buggy running around that was the fastest thing I've even seen at Dumont. The name of it was "Waz Up"(sp). Anyhow, as the story goes that guy died and a buddy seriously injured when they decided to climb in without seatbelts as they were just going to putt over comp hill on their way back to camp from comp hill. I guess the throttle hung WFO on their way up and beause the buggy was literally like a rocket ship there was nothing that could be done in time and they launced off the top big time. Anyway just another example about how you should always be on top of your game and be sure to have situational awareness.

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Post by LTZ 400 »

RichB wrote: I guess the throttle hung WFO on their way up and beause the buggy was literally like a rocket ship there was nothing that could be done in time and they launced off the top big time.
Isn't that where you're supposed to push the clutch in and hit the brakes? I think blowing the motor is preferable to dying.

Any death or injury at the dunes sucks.

David

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Post by RichB »

LTZ 400 wrote:[Isn't that where you're supposed to push the clutch in and hit the brakes? I think blowing the motor is preferable to dying.

David
David,

Without actually having watched this buggy go up comp in person you can't imagine how fast it could squirt up the hill. I bet he had time to barely realize what was going on, to say oh crap, and maybe had a split second to try to unstick the pedal.

This guy was not an amateur, his passenger said the only time they had to realize what was going on was when they were airbore off the top, at which time he tried to bail out and got hung up 1/2 way out of the cage before they hit the ground. He was lucky to be alive himself (although severely injured).

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Post by LTZ 400 »

RichB wrote: This guy was not an amateur, his passenger said the only time they had to realize what was going on was when they were airbore off the top, at which time he tried to bail out and got hung up 1/2 way out of the cage before they hit the ground. He was lucky to be alive himself (although severely injured).

Rich,
I'm not trying to make light of any death but, if they were already airborne it's a little late to try and let off the gas.
I wasn't in the car and sounds like you weren't either so we'll never know the whole story.

David

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I got this answer from glamisdunes.com

Post by Sharon @ Car Craft Inc. »

By RICHARD BROOKS / The Press-Enterprise

Two off-road-vehicle drivers crested a hill and crashed separately Friday in the High Desert, killing the owner of the Moss Brothers car dealership in Riverside and severely injuring the co-owner of a Colton dealership, investigators and family spokesmen said.

"My understanding is that he was in a dune buggy accident," attorney George Reyes said of Jay Moss, president of Moss Motors in the Riverside Auto Plaza. "He and I are friends. I've been his lawyer for more than 10 years."

Injured in the 9:24 a.m. wreck at Dumont Dunes, between Baker and Death Valley, was Scott Chadwick, 43, co-owner of B&G Auto Sales in Colton, said sales manager Brian Klaus.

"Scott was airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas," Klaus said. "I know he's going through tests right now. ... He may have back injuries."

No confirmation of the victims' names was available from the California Highway Patrol or the San Bernardino County Coroner's Office by evening. But the CHP had sketchy details.

"It appears they may have been racing each other, having fun," Officer Adam Cortinas said from the CHP office in Barstow. "They came over the top of one of the hills, and both came down and crashed in close proximity to each other."

Both men were wearing seat belts, but the dead man's belts might have failed, Cortinas said.

The preliminary investigation suggested that the cause of death was massive head injuries.

"Neither of them were wearing helmets," Cortinas said.

The surviving driver was badly hurt, he said. "He has some sort of major back injury and he was airlifted to ... Las Vegas."

Both victims have long had a passion for off-roading, their friends said.

"Jay enjoys his toys," Reyes said of the Dodge dealer who seldom used his full name, Julian Adrian Moss III. "He ... owns a number of vehicles and really enjoys himself at that sport."

Moss' brother, Glen, owns the Moss Bros. Dodge dealership in San Bernardino and Moss Bros. Ford in Colton.

Jay and Glen Moss are third-generation car dealers. Their grandfather started the business during 1921 in Blythe and moved it to Riverside in 1938. The San Bernardino expansion occurred in 1987.

Jay Moss attended Rim of the World High School in Lake Arrowhead and Poly High in Riverside and graduated from San Diego State, Reyes said.

Moss and his wife, Laura, have two children, 20-year-old Jayson, and 18-year-old Jaymi

Moss and Chadwick usually went off-roading at Glamis in Riverside County, but both had previously driven at Dumont Dunes, their friends said.

"They were friends and business associates," said Klaus, Chadwick's sales manager. "I don't think they went to (Dumont Dunes) together. I think they met up out there."

B&G Auto Sales is a 40-year-old business that has spent nearly 17 years in its present location. It is co-owned by Chadwick and his mother.

Scott Chadwick took his three children on the trip with him. They left Thursday, Klaus said.

"He usually comes back on Sunday evening."

=========================

A note: in 1995 I had to wear a helmet (and neck brace) in any sand area in any vehicle. (brain tumor-going blind... trying to save what I had left), and I was teased about trying to look like a race car driver.
I still wear one to this day. I owe a few "saves" to it. I am glad my brother is not around to see his friend gone.............

God Bless all of you and safe goings................
Ed......HONESTLY........the Turbo did NOT make a popping noise going oh-so-slowly up that hill...........

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Post by Dune Shredder »

:cry: Our thoughts and condolences to the family. Its a tragedy when this happens doing something you love [-o<
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Post by Goodwrench3 »

This is really sad to read about I feell for the family and ther loss. I hope we all learn from this and know what our limitations are out in the dunes. By the way just curious if anyone knows what kind of buggy's they were driving?

My Condolences to the families

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Post by OBSESSED »

"Scott was airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas," Klaus said. "I know he's going through tests right now. ... He may have back injuries."

Both men were wearing seat belts, but the dead man's belts might have failed, Cortinas said.

The surviving driver was badly hurt, he said. "He has some sort of major back injury and he was airlifted to ... Las Vegas."
Why you must ask your self, why would a Lawyer, and an officer of the law, tell a newspaper, "untruths/half truths" in a story about a tragic accident.

I expect BS on the internet but in news print I expect more.

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Post by Sandemon »

Steve, As one who was there, I can tell you that the reporter has some facts wrong. The news is not always right. :twisted: 8) :)
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Post by EBCMIKE »

Unfortunately many facts are wrong.

We arrived shortly after the accident and spoke with people and rangers who witnessed the accident as well as saw pictures of the cars and where the frame failed.

We all have to remember that just because your in a cage made of steel tubing does not mean your invincible, steel bends, breaks and you get shoved where gravity and G forces put you.

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very sad

Post by banshee girl »

so did the frame brake or seat belt fail? What is the true story? :cry:

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Post by Goodwrench3 »

I second that BANSHEEGIRL, everyone talks about the accident but has not given any really good details as to what failed and what type cars they were in? If any one has pictures of the cars after the accident please post so other builders can learn from this. I follow Nascar racing and when ever there is an accident where some gets hurt or killed they usually impound the car and study it to see where they can improve on the safety.

Thanks!
Ken

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Post by Sandemon »

I hope that the reason that people have not posted pics of the crash and cars involved is out of respect for Jay's friends and family. Why would anyone want to post details of this tragic event on a board where anyone who knew the people involved could see it?
As for the component that failed, it was the link between the right foot and the brain. :twisted: 8) :)
Last edited by Sandemon on Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fahrvergnugen »

I don't agree about posting pictures of a wrecked sand rail. I think it's fine. We bring wrecked cars to school so students can see what can happen when you drink and then get behind the wheel of a car. There are lessons all around us.

Not all of us purchase buggies from a showroom. I have learned how to make improvements to mine over the years by looking at what others have done. A crashed buggy can reveal a number of things. I too, am curous what type of rail was.

It was a very somber weekend after that terrible accident.
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Post by banshee girl »

I am not saying we need pictures. That would be to painful for the family. I do think that someone should post whatever failed on the website. The ONLY reason is because many of us are building toys and we would like to avoid parts or whatever may have failed on the car. That is the only reason.

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Post by Goodwrench3 »

Sandemon: I do respect the family and friends involved in this horrible accident. I do not by no means wish this to happen to anyone. So just to clairify that the only reason I asked for people to post pictures or to give an updated report as to what really failed if there was anything that did fail, is so that rumors do not start that shouldn't. And correct if I am wrong but is this not a Board where people talk about things and discuss topics that happen? I do believe the reason this topic got started was so other people out there reading this and who was not there would know what took place on this tragic day. So I guess if you look at it in the point of view that it might be hard for the family or friends then this topic should have never been posted and brought to the attention of everyone reading this. As for me personelly I had not heard anything about the accident until reading this topic. I have only been to Dumount once and did not care for it (my opinon only) I only go to Glamis. I have been through some tragic accidents out there with some family and friends being seriously injured so I do respect your opinon and others because I have shared the same pain that I am sure these family and friends are going through now.

I do have to agree with what Banshee Girl is saying too again I think we are both thinking the same thing that we would only hope that some of us could possibly learn something from maybe someone else error or judgement


Sorry to ramble on

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Post by The Oldtimer »

I think that we are overlooking the fact that NO one makes a sand car that will withstand that kind of a hit. In order to fly that distance, he had to be traveling at a high speed.

This is a tragedy...

Sadly, unless we all want air bags and/or curtains to become standard equipment in an industry that is geared towards recreation, not freeway driving, this may happen again...

Our prayers go out to his family and friends...
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Post by porboy »

One component that failed were the seat sliders.

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Post by Goodwrench3 »

Porboy, what type buggy was it? If it were the sliders that failed maybe the belts were not properly installed>?

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Post by EBCMIKE »

I can respect everyones thirst for info on this tragic event, so I have decided to post this message. For those that are offended, I appologize in advance and would not be surprised to see the topic or my post removed.

The car was a Funco.

The side support rail bucked/snapped at the weld and the rear seat support broke off at the weld, allowing the seat to lay back and cause the resultant head injury.

They were racing up the backside of the hill (which is not cop hill for those who keep saying it is) and either were not paying attention or were too busy watching each other to see who was winning and shot off the top of the hill under nearly full power.

I hope this provides the closure to this topic that everyone seeks. If there is a lesson to learn from it, PAY ATTENTION and YOUR NOT INVINCABLE just because you have a roll cage and a seat belt!

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Post by Sandemon »

If I came across to strongly on my last post I am sorry that was not my intention, it comes from many years of driveing tow trucks and dealing with this type of thing way to often.
Mike, in the past year comp hill has changed from where it used to be to the long hill that was to the right of the old comp hill, so yes, they were racing up the new comp hill. :twisted: 8) :)
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Post by EBCMIKE »

John,

No dis-respect, but that is not comp hill they were racing up. Trust me, as someone who lives out at Dumont, I do know where comp hill is and where it has moved to. Where they came over is the hill as you round the dunes to get back to comp hill. If they had come over the top of comp hill, they would have come over much farther to the west.

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Post by Goodwrench3 »

Hey Mike thanks for the info. and I am sure this will bring closure for most of us that are curious about what happened and are looking for ways to prevent such a tragedy. Again thanks for posting and I am sure this should not offend anyone with at least some common sense, life is full of learning experience and like they say hopefully we all will learn something from this.

Please Dune Safe!!!!!

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