Buggy Manufacturer Fines?

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Buggy Manufacturer Fines?

Post by crash »

I heard a rumor last week about some of the major manufacturers getting fined by CARB for selling non smog compliant buggies.(?) Does anyone know anything about this? The rumor was that they were fined thousands of $$$ for every vehicle they had sold.

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Post by Glamisbound »

There was a discussion on Glamis Dunes.com about the pending CARB conditions for '08 buggies (or was it '07?). Don't remember reading anything aboud fines though. Seems a lot of people were trying to buy a new buggy ('06 or '07) so as to not be subject to the new CARB requirments.

Make no mistake, it is coming... :evil:
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Post by gelwell »

Seems ridiculous for a vehicle that is used maybe 5-7 times a year or 20-30 hours of operation. But a diesel truck barrelling down the road can spew tons of carbon in the atmosphere with little or no regulation.
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Post by Washroad »

gelwell wrote:Seems ridiculous for a vehicle that is used maybe 5-7 times a year or 20-30 hours of operation. But a diesel truck barrelling down the road can spew tons of carbon in the atmosphere with little or no regulation.
Oh, Gene, let me tell you about trucks.........

the regulations that the trucking industry is facing/complying with in this almost-socialist state is one of our major expenses.

To meet the new smog laws, we've had to buy trucks with engines that cost as much as $15,000 per unit more.

Oh, we're regulated, trust me, in ways you wouldn't believe.

And it's killing the industry, slowly.
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Post by Glamisbound »

Washroad wrote:
gelwell wrote:Seems ridiculous for a vehicle that is used maybe 5-7 times a year or 20-30 hours of operation. But a diesel truck barrelling down the road can spew tons of carbon in the atmosphere with little or no regulation.
Oh, Gene, let me tell you about trucks.........

the regulations that the trucking industry is facing/complying with in this almost-socialist state is one of our major expenses.

To meet the new smog laws, we've had to buy trucks with engines that cost as much as $15,000 per unit more.

Oh, we're regulated, trust me, in ways you wouldn't believe.

And it's killing the industry, slowly.
Seems like COMMON SENSE isn't so common anymore (meaning the regulators). They are going after everything, including us. And you can bet the cost to payoff ratio isn't there!!!
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Post by MR. PETE »

This is very serious.

I spoke with a employee of a prominent sand car manufacturer last Saturday and he told me that their business was fined around $15K recently. He said that was the total penalty to date for every car that was not incompliance and sold since June of this year.

This manufacturer has been trying to figure out how to comply with the CARB regulations without success so far. It is a very difficult situation that may not be easily overcome.

They are experimenting with a sand car and taking it to a local automobile smog station to test their efforts to comply.

This is a seroius problem that will probably be resolved by detuning the engines in whatever ways are necessary to comply, adding catalytic converters, etc. Of course the ownership costs to comply will go up too.

The problem I foresee is that the new owners will of course remove the CARB requirements and retune the cars to suit their needs once they get them from the builder. Any one remember hearing of, perhaps doing this back in the '70"s when the first smog laws came into effect?

Like the 70's, once this happens for a time, there will be a new regulation that will come out, which will then require the retesting of the sand cars every year or two - probably add another sticker next to the green sticker to show compliance. Of course this is my speculation at this point.

This is just another case of unelected and therefore unaccountable people dictating public policy. They believe they are looking out for the best interest of society, and they are paid by us taxpayers to do so.

Unless there is some kind of Conservative ideology revival in this state and nation, we may someday look fondly back at the good old days when the only battle we had to fight was over the truth about the extinction of some flowering weed.

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Post by tomjeeps2 »

Boy if I had the nerve I'd just tell CARB to get off our backs, or I'll just expose them for the fraud that they are, till the State looses it's Federal Hwy funds all together. What the heck our sport don't get any of that money so why should we care, would it make the trip to Glamis any more difficult? I think not. I mean if I only had a pair I would say CARB get lost, you got a long enough of a free ride on us with the RED STICKER lie, CARB go find another scape goat...TJ :evil:
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Post by Voice »

Gee, I don't seem to remember anyone getting upset when the stage was set for this a couple of years ago when they reinforced the sound requirements...
I seem to remember a bunch of comments along the lines of..
"What's so difficult about putting a muffler on a buggy"?

Turns out that it's really not that difficult to put a muffler on a buggy, but the catalytic converters, smog pumps and detuning is a bit tougher to swallow.

The result of this will be that most buggy manufacturers will stay small time building custom cars which will not require smog as a "custom built" car. People will start up a new market for VW Pan serial numbers/titles like the old days, manufactured cars will have the part of the pan with the serial number welded into the frame somewhere in order to bypass this.

In other words, more of the same.
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Post by ddjthomas »

Voice wrote:I seem to remember a bunch of comments along the lines of..
"What's so difficult about putting a muffler on a buggy"?

Turns out that it's really not that difficult to put a muffler on a buggy, but the catalytic converters, smog pumps and detuning is a bit tougher to swallow.
Not that I agree with the CARB, they suck :evil: But a stock LS2 has 400 hp and meets 50 state emissions :!: If you think you need more than 400 hp, then you can afford what ever custom work you need to do and get around the law.

Also having a freind in AZ register your rail and putting an out of state green sticker on it is an option.
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Post by realbadlarry »

And the best part is in Kalifornia, and possibly everywhere, they can write you a ticket and impound your bike, quad, buggy for removing emissions equipment. Already seeing this happen in Norcal with the Honda 450x emissions stuff.

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Post by gelwell »

Oh, Gene, let me tell you about trucks.........

the regulations that the trucking industry is facing/complying with in this almost-socialist state is one of our major expenses.
I really had no idea, my apologies, it seems like as prefaced before these things are happening in front us with no real warning or slipped in on some obscure regulation.
they can write you a ticket and impound your bike, quad, buggy for removing emissions equipment.
Well the goes the my theory about having two motors one with smog and one without (the one you use whilst duning) sounds like quite the conundrum.
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Post by tomjeeps2 »

The issue really isn't us not wanting clean air so much, it's easy to tune an engine to run clean and still have more than enough power, problem is if it's not "certified it's still illegal no matter how clean it is. Not to up on this but vehicle type and weight classification can be a real headache, was engine removed from one class to another etc, can be a real can of worms...TJ
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Post by mbacon »

But a stock LS2 has 400 hp and meets 50 state emissions

Only with the proper smog equipment, including exhaust, catalitic converter, fuel vapor system, etc. Crate motors, which are typically used in sand cars, do not include all these items. This also applies to LS1, LS7, Ecotec, and all the others.
Then you get in to the whole "Engine/Car conversion" problems. CARB and DMV don't care if it meets emission levels or not. If it doesn't match their "book", it's illegal, period. Neither org. has an open mind.

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Post by tomjeeps2 »

We should take CARB to court and make them change their name, they have little if nothing to do with research, if they worked with us we could find solutions, but instead their just a miserable pain in the butt...TJ
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Post by crash »

Um, I think CARB stands for California Air Resources Board.

I see CARB in the same light as I see the Sierra Club, EPA, and unions. They are a neccessary element in order to keep people/corporations in check and not abusive, but once they have tackled the major issues, as I believe ALL of them have at this point, they are all just looking for reasons to exist and possibly expand, instead of what they SHOULD be doing, which is getting smaller, as their primary objectives have been met.

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Post by crash »

They're hittin the off-road and auto industries hard. Look at this from their website.

08-22-07
The Air Resources Board recently reached a $700,000 settlement with auto manufacturer Saleen, Inc. of Irvine, California, for selling vehicles not certified to California regulations, which can affect tailpipe emissions and negatively impact air quality.
08-14-07
The California Air Resources Board recently settled with four companies operating in California for a collective $321,875 for failing to properly inspect their diesel truck fleets.
08-06-07
Sierra Pacific Industries, a lumber company headquartered in Redding, California recently paid $13 million to settle allegations of air quality violations at four of the company's Sierra foothills sites.
07-31-07
The California Air Resources Board announced today that it has negotiated a settlement with Coca-Cola Bottling Company of Los Angeles for $528,500 as a result of failure to properly inspect its diesel truck fleet for smoke emissions.
07-24-07
Union Pacific Railroad, headquartered in Omaha, NE, recently paid $120,000 for violations of regulations requiring companies to inspect and verify that their diesel trucks in California meet state exhaust limits.
03-30-07
The ARB has reached a $225,000 settlement with Macco Adhesives, owned by The Glidden Company, for their role in distributing in 316,231 units of Liquid Nails Clear Small Projects & Repair Adhesive with volatile organic compound emissions that exceeded clean air regulations.
03-12-07
The ARB has settled with Husqvarna Outdoor Products (HOP) for a total of $281,600 for selling engines in California that violate state air quality standards.
01-30-07
The ARB announced that Cummins Engine Company has paid $1,092,500 for allegedly violating its 1998 settlement agreement with ARB to perform clean air projects and certify its engines to reduce smog-forming emissions such as NOx (oxides of nitrogen).
01-26-07
The ARB has negotiated a settlement with Jesse James of West Coast Choppers for $271,250 for the sale of new and custom-built motorcycles that were not certified to the state's strict emissions standards.
04-05-06
AG Lockyer Files Criminal Charges Against Techland Testing for Submitting False Certificates
01-18-06
The ARB Reaches Settlement Agreements with American Power Products, CSK Auto Inc. (Kragen Auto Parts), Homelite, and California Auto Dealers Exchange, LLC
01-09-06
Portable Services Company Settles with the ARB for $100,000
12-21-05
Chrysler Agrees to Recall OBD Systems and Extend Catalytic Converter Warranties on More Than 90,000 Trucks and Vans
12-16-05
Attorney General Files $20 Million Complaint Against Yamaha
05-16-05
Insecticide Producer United Industries Corporation, Settles with Payment of $100,000 for VOC Violations
02-03-05
Air Quality Regulators Settle with Lowe’s, Sam’s Club, and RMC Pacific Material for Violations
01-31-05
ARB Begins Enforcement of Idling Vehicle Rule
01-03-05
$500,000 Settles VOC Violations by MOC Products Corporation
12-21-04
$404,500 Settles Off-Road Engine Violations by John Deere, Komatsu Zenoah, and Vantage Power Vehicles
12-02-04
Reckitt Benckiser, Spot Remover Manufacturer, Settles with Payment of $165,000 for VOC Violations
12-01-04
Three Motorcycle Distributors, Indian Motorcycles of Long Beach, South Bay Triumph, and Bay Area Custom Cycles, Settle $610,000 in Smog Violations
11-04-04
Two Diesel Fleet Companies,Valley Environmental Services and Irish Construction, Settle Emissions Violations
07-08-04
Air Quality Violations: $105,000 in Settlements for Sale of Non-Certified Products
04-21-04
Six Transit Agencies Pay Clean Air Violation Fines
04-21-04
Two Custom Chassis Companies Pay Settlements
04-14-04
Wal-Mart Pays Settlement for the Sale of Uncertified Small Off-Road Engines
03-29-04
ARB Settles Five Enforcement Cases for $154,000
02-17-04
Building Materials Manufacturer Pays $350,000 Settlement
01-21-04
Volkswagen Pays $552,500 Settlement
12-09-03
Auto Manufacturers Pay $110,000 in Settlements
11-06-03
Conair Corporation Settles with Paymanet of $225,000
09-08-03
Enforcement Action Settlements Total More Than $200,000
08-15-03
Cleaner Air at California Schools: Bus Idling Restrictions Now Enforced
07-21-03
Mazda of America Agrees to $1 Million Settlement
06-11-03
Car Rental Companies Pay $185,000 in Settlements
02-13-03
ARB Requires GM Warranty Extensions on 700,000 '96-'01 SUVs, Trucks and Vans
02-07-03
Recreational Vehicle Manufacturers and Dealers Pay Penalties Totaling $88,525
01-31-03
Ford Settles with Air Board: Pays $1.14 Million
11-13-02
Furniture Polish Manufacturer to Pay $47,500 Settlement
11-06-02
Shelby American Settles with $140,000
09-19-02b
Automotive Coatings Manufacturer Pays $350,000 Settlement
09-19-02
John Deere Settles with Payment of $200,000
07-26-02b
Recreational Vehicle Manufacturers and Dealers Pay Penalties Totaling $131,000
07-24-02
Gas Can Manufacturer Ordered to Cease and Desist
07-16-02
$150,000 Settlement for Selling Non-Compliant Engines
06-19-02
Governor Davis Announces National Record Breaking $45.8 Million Settlement For Leaking Gas Station Tanks
05-21-02
Equilon Enterprises pays $55,000 for Air Quality Violations
05-06-02
Enforcement of Air Pollution Protection Laws Leads to $72,300 in Fines
05-02-02
Hyundai to Extend Emission Warranty
05-01-02
$400,000 Paid to Settle Hair Product Case
04-16-02
Grey Market Auto Ring Fined $1 Million
03-05-02
Toyota Agrees to Pay $7.9 Million Settlement
01-30-02
Motorized Scooter Company Fined $100,000
01-03-02
Air Quality Violations Settled for $55,000
11-28-01
ARB Settles Two Air Quality Violation Cases Totaling $85,000
10-31-01
Ford Motor Co. Pays $150,000 for Emissions Labeling Case Settlement
09-18-01
$75,000 Fine to be Paid by Trash Company
08-27-01
ARB Reaches $200,000 Settlement with Garden Equipment Manufacturer
03-26-01
Media Advisory - ARB Sun Valley Truck Enforcement
11-17-00
ARB Settles Air Quality Violation with Subaru
05-26-00
ARB Settles Air Quality Violation with Volvo
03-21-00
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Winter
11-22-99
ARB Announces Recall of 2,700 1994 Saturns
11-10-99
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of October
10-19-99
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of September
09-14-99
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for Summer 1999
08-13/2-99
Corrected Kia Recall New Release
08-13-99
ARB Orders Recall of 26, 539 Kia Vehicles
08-11-99
ARB Announces Smoking Vehicle Program
07-20-99
ARB Settles for More than $1 Million in El Centro Asbestos Case
07-01-99
ARB Diesel Program Marks First Anniversary
06-15-99
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of April
01-29-99
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of December
01-28-99
ARB Reaches Settlement on Clean Air Plan
01-07-99
ARB's Heavy Duty Vehicle Inspection Program Working for Cleaner Air
10-22-98
ARB Reaches Settlement with Six Diesel Manufacturers
10-14-98
Nine Oil Companies Accused of Selling Non-ARB Gasoline in Southern California
09-11-98
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of August
09-02-98
ARB Orders Repair Plan for 330,000 Toyota and Lexus Autos
08-21-98
ARB Settles Fuel Violation Case with Equilon Enterprises
08-04-98
ARB Reaches $250,000 Settlement with Mitsubishi
07-28-98
ARB Settles Air Quality Violations for the Month of July
07-10-98
ARB Settles with Redding Petroleum Over Illegal Diesel Fuel Sales
07-07-98
ARB Settles Allou Health and Beauty Care, Inc. Hair Spray Case
06-08-98
ARB Announces Settlement with Honda to Extend Emission Warranties
06-04-98
ARB Settles Kiwi Brands and COSTCO Consumer Products Enforcement Cases
06-03-98
State Starts up "Smog Check" for Diesel Trucks and Buses
06-02-98
Media Advisory - Diesel Truck & Bus Smoke Inspections Begin
05-29-98
Media Advisory - Roadside Inspection of Heavy-Duty Diesels
04-20-98
ARB Settles Gelson's and Mayfair Hair Spray Case
02-19-98
ARB Settles Ventura Drug Store Hair Spray Case
02-04-98
ARB and GM Settle on Illegal Vehicle Sales
01-09-98
ARB Negotiates Voluntary Recall of GM Trucks
12-11-97
ARB Approves Diesel Truck and Bus Inspection Programs
06-18-97
ARB Announces GM Recall
06-03-97
ARB Announces $1.3 Million Settlement with General Motors
08-07-96
ARB Announces GM Recall
08-25-94
ARB Settles Additive Violation Notice with Unocal
04-19-93
ARB and Mendocino County Settle Compliance Complaint with Masonite
11-17-92
State and Local Air Quality Officials Reach Settlement Over Emission Violations
10-01-92
State and Local Air Quality Officials Settle Imperial County Pollution Violations
08-13-92
ARB Reaches Settlement with Oil Company Over Anti-Smog Rule Violations
11-08-90
ARB Sets Smog Check Style Anti-Soot Tests for Big-Rig Diesels
01-12-90
ARB Reaches Settlement with Isuzu


Details about enforcement actions are available by contacting the ARB. For further information about this program, please contact the Enforcement Division at (916) 322-7061 or visit our Enforcement Contacts page for information regarding specific programs. To view the news releases from this year and earlier, please go to ARB's News Releases page.

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Post by crash »

It appears that this Pavley chick is one of the ones that's really stirring things up.

Release 07-27
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 30, 2007
Genny Paauwe
(916) 322-2990
http://www.arb.ca.gov

Air board honors three clean air heroes



SACRAMENTO -- The California Air Resources Board honored three environmental leaders today for their outstanding, cutting-edge work in the public policy arena to improve air quality throughout the state and beyond.

James E. Hansen, Ph.D., Alan C. Lloyd, Ph.D., and Ms. Fran Pavley received the prestigious Haagen-Smit Award, which is given each year to recognize significant career efforts in at least one of several air quality categories, including research, environmental policy, science and technology, public education, or community service.

"With the leadership of world-renowned individuals such as those honored today, California is steadily reducing smog, air toxics, and greenhouse gas emissions that harm the environment and sicken millions each year," said ARB Chairman Mary D. Nichols. "Their indefatigable spirit and commitment to air quality and climate change issues has a positive world-wide public health impact."

Hansen, the Director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies located in New York City, was honored for his work on atmospheric science. He is also Adjunct Professor in Earth and Environmental Sciences at Columbia University. Since the late 1970s, he has worked on studies and computer simulations of the Earth's climate, to better understand the human impact on global climate.

Lloyd, President of the International Council on Clean Transportation, was recognized for his leadership in clean air technologies. Before his current position, he led the California Environmental Protection Agency as its secretary from 2004 to 2006 and the ARB as its chairman for five years, promulgating programs that spurred development of new technologies and new approaches to emission controls and energy management.

Pavley, now with the Natural Resources Defense Council, was lauded for her contributions to environmental policy. Previously, she served three terms in the California State Assembly (2000-2006) and chaired the Air & Water Quality Committee and the Hydrogen & Other Alternative Fuels Committee.

Pavley sponsored landmark legislation on global warming that has become a model for other states and countries to follow. Notably, she authored AB 1493 to cut greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles by 30 percent, and co-authored California's Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006 (AB 32), the nation's first mandated climate change action to cap emissions at 1990 levels.


California faces the nation's most serious air quality challenge. Despite unprecedented growth, California's air quality has dramatically improved over the last 50 years.

The California Air Resources Board has sponsored the Haagen-Smit Clean Air Award since 2001. For a list of past recipients, please see: http://www.arb.ca.gov/docs/hsawards/hsw ... inners.htm

The Air Resources Board is a department of the California Environmental Protection Agency. ARB's mission is to promote and protect public health, welfare, and ecological resources through effective reduction of air pollutants while recognizing and considering effects on the economy. The ARB oversees all air pollution control efforts in California to attain and maintain health based air quality standards.

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Post by tomjeeps2 »

Perhaps your right and I'm subconsciously inject what I think it should be, point is they develop nothing, they just fine us to death for not following laws nobody can understand. They do nothing but stare down their noses at us and contribute nothing, as auto workers we are all on our own, to develop the technology and try and deal with this mess..TJ
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Post by Brian_A »

So I can register a car in Mexico with no smog cert and drive it across the border and CARB has no problem with this? Are they really interested in air quality or just power?
Does CARB regulate dragsters or NASCAR vehicles?

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Post by tomjeeps2 »

I think the list of fines crash posted says it all, mass non compliance indicates a dysfunctional agency, CARB's whole mission needs to be totally revamped...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
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Post by crash »

Brian_A wrote:
Does CARB regulate dragsters or NASCAR vehicles?
Don't EVEN go there!!

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Post by azsandrider »

If all those businesses listed would have the guts to tell California to 'pound sand' and stop doing business in the state until the laws were changed, California would quickly have severe economic issues and would quickly change the rules....

The companies have more power to dictate to Ca what the laws should be if they just worked together to boycott that state. I don't why any businnes would want to locate there....
(The above statement is my own opinion and not that of the ASA's.)

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Post by crash »

I know a couple of MAJOR business owners personally who have relocated to other states. The political winds are just too strongly against them here in CA.

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Post by tomjeeps2 »

One noticeable common denominator in these fines is the word "settlement", no ones taking CARB to court because the expenses are too high, or the Stakes are too high. Perhaps if all the cooperations developed a defense fund, they could take on CARB I understand their tactics are more like that of a shake down artist, than that of a Government agency...TJ
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Post by crash »

tomjeeps2 wrote: One noticeable common denominator in these fines is the word "settlement",


I noticed that too....immediately!
tomjeeps2 wrote: I understand their tactics are more like that of a shake down artist, than that of a Government agency...TJ
Seems to me like those terms just keep becoming more synonymous all the time. :cry:

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Post by warlock »

Its all about money and the state gets free money by the fines they levy.

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Post by 16ds_an2x4s »

I think the reason all disputes are "settled" is that most offenders really don't have a leg to stand on. The fed's "Clean Air Act" was passed in 1970, and it gave individual states the mandate of "equal or better" compliance based on certain dates, and pollutant sources. CARB was founded 3 years before that, and chose the "or better" route. This is all going to happen to the rest of the country too, just not for another decade or two. Meaning we're doomed to have the manufacturers not give a **** about charging us 15-30% more for additional equipment the other 49 states don't need.

"Ignorance being no excuse of the law" is the fundamental operating principal of the ARB. Or rather, "Just because you didn't KNOW you had to find an energy source (which may not exist) meeting criteria nobody can measure (without equipment NASA can't afford), doesn't mean we didn't write the rediculous piece of crap 30 years ago."

These laws and CA's unpreparedness have driven massive corporations into the ground... sadly, a few buggy shops aren't going to muss anyone's hair. Exactly how they try to enforce all this in the field is going to be interesting, but I think whoever said biennial smog-checks are on the horizon is absolutely correct. :(

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Post by crash »

Guess I should build a couple more buggies before this happens so they are "grandfathered" in and don't have such restrictions. Oh wait a second, they will probably make it retroactive like they did with the sound laws, and besides, in a couple decades, after the first woman president gets in there, there won't be any places to even be able to start them up without being cited. Things are looking just peachy for us off-roaders, aren't they?

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Post by jhitesma »

crash wrote:Guess I should build a couple more buggies before this happens so they are "grandfathered" in and don't have such restrictions. Oh wait a second, they will probably make it retroactive like they did with the sound laws, and besides, in a couple decades, after the first woman president gets in there, there won't be any places to even be able to start them up without being cited. Things are looking just peachy for us off-roaders, aren't they?

Little late for that Crash. The new laws took effect 1/1/07. This had been brought up several times before but few listened (kind of like few listened in 98-99 about the threat of the CBD lawsuit.)

Oh yeah...and since you're in CA the "couple of buggies" side is also out for you as they changed it a few years ago that you're only allowed one "special construction" in a lifetime, which is the biggest loophole around this.

CA is extra screwed thanks to CARB, word from those involved lately in this has been VERY lacking but supposedly CARB is mainly reacting to new EPA regulations...but no one official has said anything about the EPA side of things. Being in AZ myself it's the EPA side that worries me. Of course we still don't have smog on street vehicles here in Yuma and that's federal so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is similar (Federal but not mandated.)

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Post by crash »

jhitesma wrote:

Oh yeah...and since you're in CA the "couple of buggies" side is also out for you as they changed it a few years ago that you're only allowed one "special construction" in a lifetime, which is the biggest loophole around this.
Well, I've actually built about a dozen or so "special construction" vehicles, so I guess there's something to be said for NOT registering things.

Yeah, yeah, I know. It's technically illegal to tow a vehicle on a CA roadway without a permit. In other words ALL my race vehicles are supposed to have a green sticker. WHATEVER!!! Too bad we don't have a one finger salute emoticon. I would be using it here. (Directed at the gov, not you Jason)

BTW- My entire previous post was an attempt at sarcasm, if you couldn't tell. :D

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Post by Havaduner »

Does CARB regulate dragsters or NASCAR vehicles?[/quote]

I was told it is something they are looking into. They are looking at a day in the future when all internal combustion engines are regulated.

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Post by crash »

Hey how about this option. The people of San Diego agree to not expand their commercial passanger airport facilities. Thereby reducing regional polution by, say, TEN TIMES what any restrictions on our ORVs would accomplish. Probably ten times in ONE DAY what we produce all year!!

Or how about the people of San Diego port ONE LESS cruise ship every 12 months and thereby reduce regional polution by TEN TIMES what our ORVs produce.

Maybe we can put some wind farms on the border with Mexico. Then when the polution starts drifting over we turn the wind farms into fan farms and blow it all back!!

These things sound pretty stupid, but then again so does regulating engines that run on nitro/alcohol (dragsters) and cars that run in this state once or twice a year for only a few hours, or in the dragsters case, a couple minutes!!!

Stupid is as stupid does.

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Post by crash »

The only thing I think makes sense is to regulate out the use of leaded fuels on water. Do we really want to put lead into our drinking water and the water that grows our food? An alcohol only four stroke law on water would actually make some sense to me.

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Post by 16ds_an2x4s »

I really can't say I disagree with any of the AQ regulations, every little bit helps, and they really have gone after the biggest polluters first. The air over CA's big cities has gotten immensely better over the last 20 years despite continuing growth. Just look at LA, that cloud will never be completely gone, but at least you don't need a gas mask anymore.

The beef I have is really with the Fed not regulating this stuff across the board. This "everybody pick your own regulations" crap is what allows the gouging. Can somebody 'splain to me why a Prius should cost more than a tricked-out 4x4 Superduty? We'll eventually get just as much noise, HP, and fun out of cleaner sources, but I predict a longer, more painful process than it needs to be. The Fed's going to let the oil companies flog the "fossil fuel" horse until well after it's dead, when we should be forcing them to scramble for the R&D. The only ones paying for that is us consumers.



Edit: My first instinct is to say they can F*%@ off where Nascar/NHRA are concerned, too. Then I think how much money Force, Childress & Hendrick's teams really have, and remember that almost every improvement in fuel economy & engine efficiency has come directly from racing... I dunno. D@mn I'll miss the smell of race fuel when it's gone though :(

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Post by RichB »

Voice wrote:Gee, I don't seem to remember anyone getting upset when the stage was set for this a couple of years ago when they reinforced the sound requirements...
I seem to remember a bunch of comments along the lines of..
"What's so difficult about putting a muffler on a buggy"?
Ya know, I kinda agree with what you're saying here. In a nutshell I believe there's some key things that constantly work against us.
Starting with a severe case of Duner Apathy, there's the "doesn't affect me" i.e. I don't own a buggy types, and then there's a select group of "activist" people that are the "enemy within" (who may or may not even know they're doing damage rather than good).

We have this same type of crap going on in NV right now. A couple of years back a group of folks (some of which used to post on this board) had the bright idea to actually lobby for an off-road registration requirement in NV. Not saying the "on-paper" concept isn't good (but then again so is communism) i.e. money goes to.......(pick your fantasy)....designate trails, protect OHV areas, education, open new areas etc. Well, what we ended up with was some half-cocked seudo registration that hasn't done squat. Fast-forward to present day and our local paper (Las Vegas Review Journal) has had 2 very anti-OHV (ATV specific) articles in it this week. One of these articles is all about the push to make a no-kidding OHV registration (which will cost money now) for the sole purpose of catching, IDing, and prosecuting OHV operators who violate "the law". So, even though the people that originally pushed this were well-intentioned OHV people they did not have enough foresight to see what this would morph into......an additional no-value cost/burden to the OHV guy for the privilege of having this money siphoned off for either non-OHV expenditures; paying for LEOs to police himself; or perhaps worst of all, have this money used by "anti" groups to shut him down.
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Post by crash »

Gee Rich, that sounds scarrily like what happened with "Fee Demo". As I have said before, I recall filling out a survey before fee demo was instituted that ask me, basically, "what would you like your fee money spent on?" I assumed like many, I'm sure, that this was talking about the green sticker fees, as I believe it was included with a renewal notice. I, of course, checked things that made sense for duners. Road upkeep, LEOs, toilets, and trash containers. Little did I know that THAT survey would be used to say "see, the users WANT the additional Fee Demo program"!! It was not until a friend in my duning group mentioned this that the connection of the two was made for me. NEVER AGAIN!! I SUPPORT NOTHING THAT COULD EVEN REMOTELY BE USED TO REMOVE MORE MONEY FROM OUR POCKETS. We already pay ridiculous amounts to drive a vehicle around on a pile of sand a few times a year. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!! :evil:

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