Berkeley city council tells Marines to leave

Post by **Winston Cup** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:27 pm

Berkeley council tells Marines to leave
By Doug Oakley
STAFF WRITER

Article Launched: 01/30/2008 01:48:16 PM PST
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_8120433?source=rss

Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.

That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted 6-3 Tuesday night to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue recruiting station "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders."

In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the Marines because of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy. And it officially encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work of the Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.

In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a designated parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4 p.m.
Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.

The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year, having moved from Alameda in December of 2006. For about the past four months, Code Pink has been protesting in front of the station.

"I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates after votes were cast.

A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment.

The resolution telling the Marines they are unwelcome and directing the city attorney to explore issues of sexual orientation discrimination was brought to the council by the city's Peace and Justice commission.

The recommendation to give Code Pink a parking space for protesting and a free sound permit was brought by council members Linda Maio and Max Anderson.

Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a measure on the November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches libraries or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the ballot.

Even though the council items passed, not everyone is happy with the work of Code Pink. Some employees and owners of businesses near the Marines office have had enough of the group and its protests.

"My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting) is bordering on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this stops."

An employee of a nearby business who asked not to be identified said Wednesday the elderly Code Pink protesters are aggressive, take up parking spaces, block the sidewalk with their yoga moves, smoke in the doorways, and are noisy.

"Most of the people around here think they're a joke," the woman said.
Wozniak said he was opposed to giving Code Pink a parking space because it favors free speech rights of one group over another.

"There's a line between protesting and harassing, and that concerns me," Wozniak said. "It looks like we are showing favoritism. We have to respect the other side, and not abuse their rights. This is not good policy."

Ninety-year-old Fran Rachel, a Code Pink protester who spoke at the council meeting, said the group's request for a parking space and noise permit was especially important because the Marines are recruiting soldiers who may die in an unjust war.

"This is very serious," Rachel said. "This isn't a game; it's mass murder. There's a sickness of silence of people not speaking out against the war. We have to do this."

Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps when he took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the Marines high tale it out of town.

"We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions of dollars on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're involved in a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary people to express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should be doing it."

E-mail Doug Oakley at doakley@bayareanewsgroup.com

Grumpy Wookiee · Post by **Grumpy Wookiee** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:24 am

For the first time in my life, I am stunned to the point of tears and am complely speechless. How could they...

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:06 am

It's bazerkley GW.........it angers me too, but look at them at what they are...................OUT THERE

Washroad · Post by **Washroad** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:19 am

This is Diane, Babs and Nancy territory.

I'm not amazed. I'm angry.

Post by **BHenry** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:03 am

I'd like to see what happens to Berkeley when they are invaded and none of the Armed Forces do anything about it.

FunRunner · Post by **FunRunner** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:41 am

BHenry wrote:I'd like to see what happens to Berkeley when they are invaded and none of the Armed Forces do anything about it.

right; kinda like the aetheist, realizing he is about to die suddenly as an angry bear is about to nab him, and proclaiming, "oh my God!"......and God asks him, "why are you calling on me now, when you don't believe in me? say the word, and you shall receive the gift of conversion....and the aetheist responds, "can you convert the bear instead?" and God, being ever cooperative, gives the bear a strong sudden belief, much to the relief of the aetheist. Whereupon, the now converted bear, begins to say something to the Lord, "bless me Lord and this gift I am about to receive" as he gratefully prepares for his meal, and so, though sometimes you get what you wish for, the final result may have dire consequences....

Post by **Winston Cup** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:52 pm

U.S. Senator Wants to Revoke Funding From City of Berkeley, Calif., for Vote to Boot Marines

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html

Friday , February 01, 2008

WASHINGTON â€”

U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., says the City of Berkeley, Calif., no longer deserves federal money.
DeMint was angered after learning that the Berkeley City Council voted this week to tell the U.S. Marine Corps to remove its recruiting station from the city's downtown.

"This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money."

"If the city canâ€™t show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added.

In the meantime, a senior Marine official tells FOX News that the Marine office in Berkeley isn't going anywhere.

"We understand things are different there, but some people just don't get it. This is a part of the military machine that gives them the right to do what they do, but what they are doing is extreme," the official said.

DeMint said he will draft legislation to rescind any earmarks dedicated for the City of Berkeley in the recently passed appropriations bill â€” which his office tallied to value about $2.1 million. He said that any money taken back would be transferred to the Marines.

DeMint's office provided a preliminary list of items that would be subject to his proposal:

â€” $975,000 for the University of California at Berkeley, for the Matsui Center for Politics and Public Service, which may include establishing an endowment, and for cataloguing the papers of Congressman Robert Matsui.

â€” $750,000 for the Berkeley/Albana ferry service.

â€” $243,000 for the Chez Panisse Foundation, for a school lunch initiative to integrate lessons about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum.

â€” $94,000 for a Berkeley public safety interoperability program.

â€” $87,000 for the Berkeley Unified School District, nutrition education program.

The Marine official, speaking with FOX News on Friday, said Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway scoffed at the news, but there are no plans for to protest the City Council's decisions. There are definitely no plans to move the recruiting station either.

"To actually put something into law that encourages the disruption of a federal office is ridiculous. They are not going to kick a federal office out of its rightful place there, and this is not going to discourage those young patriots who want to be Marines," the official said.

The Berkeley City Council this week voted to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests," according to The Associated Press.

The council also voted to explore whether a city anti-discrimination law applies to the Marines, with a focus on the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy that prevents open homosexuality in the military.

The council also voted to give the antiwar group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months, as well as a protest permit.

The Marine recruiting office in Berkeley has been open for about one year, but has been the subject of recent protests by Code Pink members.

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:09 pm

Bravo for Sen. DeMint.........................why are't our spineless senators speaking out

rockjeep · Post by **rockjeep** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:17 pm

Dear alkada,
Knowing that you will attack again, Please make your first target berkeley ca.

Sorry was I thinking out loud.

GlamisSandDuner · Post by **GlamisSandDuner** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:19 pm

I have a proposal........how about we get the Marines out of Berkeley and then start using Berkeley as a new nuclear testing facility

Here is a copy of an email that I recently received that I think you will all enjoy

INTERESTING STATISTIC

Regardless of where you stand on the issue of the U.S. involvement in Iraq , here's a sobering statistic:

There has been a monthly average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theatre of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths. That gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000 persons for the same period.
That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. Capital than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington

Post by **Winston Cup** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:36 pm

Sandcock wrote:Bravo for Sen. DeMint.........................why are't our spineless senators speaking out

You mean like Boxer or Feinstein?

Might be interesting to send them an e-mail for their position on this proposed legislation by Sen. Jim DeMint.

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:38 pm

I've sent emails before and all I got was an automatic electronic repsonse back. They get thousands of emails and I think round file them. Maybe we should call them

crash · Post by **crash** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:24 pm

I was listening to a professor from Berkley the other night as he spewed all these "facts" about the falsities of the Iraq war and the various propaganda techniques that were/are being employed. The funny/interesting thing was that everytime he said the term "Iraq" I instead put the term "global warming" in its place, and the entire interview made perfect sense to me.

These people know precisely what theyare doing, but only show thier hand when on the defensive. They make me laugh and want to vomit all at the same time.

gelwell · Post by **gelwell** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:09 pm

Boxer and Feinstein are Bay Area screaming liberals, this is where they have their political base. They arent going to do crap. It takes a Senator from South Carolina to anything about it. What a country

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:16 pm

and what about the third in line to be Prez

Where's she at

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:21 pm

Just called Senators Feinstein and Boxer, and Congresswoman Pelosi to asked them to publicly rebuke the Mayor and City Council of Berkley and to ask them to renounce their behavior towards our Marines at the recruiting office. I encourage all to stand up and do the same........enough is enough.

http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/inde ... ateOffices

http://boxer.senate.gov/

http://www.house.gov/pelosi/

The more I think about this, the more fired up I get

Post by **Winston Cup** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:00 pm

Finding Clarity: A Seattle-area Conservative's Blog
Editor's note: This is a P-I Reader Blog. P-I Reader Blogs are not written or edited by the P-I. They are written by readers, for readers. The authors are solely responsible for content.

Berkeley: The backlash against City and Code Pink begins, and local reaction is split

And here we go. People are starting to gather and get vocal.

Before I report on the latest let me say one thing. Dissension is an American tradition. Even the "symbolic gestures" passed by many local communities are traditions of free speech and discourse that I appreciate, and I defend...in principle. In other words, I vigorously defend the rights of American Citizens to protest, to pass initiatives and to complain.

However.

Freedom of speech works both ways. I have the freedom of dissent too. I have the freedom to see what they do and hear what they say and to protest them. The fact they are engaged in a free speech activity is not cover and shield against retaliation and counter demonstration.

In the case of the Military, Berkeley and Code Pink can harass and protest the Marines within the confines of the law and even alter existing law to harass them a bit more. Whether or not that is a violation of various Federal laws is a matter for lawyers and Judges to determine.

But, Berkeley and Code Pink must remember that they too are subject to protests in retaliation, whether in the form of boycotts, public displays of disgust and legal action.

One thing I have noticed quite often in these situations is that people tend to think free speech creates a vacuum of protection and sanctity. It doesn't. In fact it is not a protection of legal action at all, which means the vandalism committed by Code Pink is subject to criminal prosecution.

Free speech is not a protection against consequence.

In summary, if they have a right to do what they do, I have the same right to do what I do, and to join the other bloggers in their efforts to protest them.

ddjthomas · Post by **ddjthomas** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:53 am

I am totally speachless

When I get this mad, the only thing I can think to do is kill them. You can not reason with people like that.

Dusty Rhodes · Post by **Dusty Rhodes** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:01 am

Don't forget that across the bay the City of San Francisco denied the Marines permission to shoot a recruiting video in the city of SF. Unbelievable that they are protesting the same people that protect their right to protest!

FunRunner · Post by **FunRunner** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:09 am

Almost makes you think splitting the State might not be all that bad.....of course, if we do that, our neighbors to the South, might get some reinforced ideas of their "rights"

Grumpy Wookiee · Post by **Grumpy Wookiee** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:27 pm

Sandcock, letters sent.

I also printed out the article and placed it all over my building. On Friday alone, about 75 Marines read the story. Most had a similar reaction to me originally, sad and discusted. But later, we all came around, laughed at the people that have just basically pissed in their own cup. There is no way that the American Government is going to let this type of treatment continue. There is no way the American Public is going to let the American Government take no action on this matter.

AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT THE UNITED STATES MARINES ARE GOING TO RETREAT!!

If these people in Berkley think they can make the Marines retreat, they have to be tougher that the German War Machine in Bellau Wood in WWI, more numerous than the Japanese hordes on the islands of the Pacific, and more intense than any treatement dished out during the Batan Death March. They would have to be scarier than house to house fighting and urban warfare in Fallujah, and they would have to be tougher than chasing the Talaban through the mountains of Afganistan!

If these people think they can tell the U.S. Marines that they are not welcome and get them to run, they should review history a little more!

Dusty Rhodes · Post by **Dusty Rhodes** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:33 pm

**** GW, I just stood up and saluted my monitor after that!

Post by **BHenry** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:39 am

Grumpy Wookiee wrote:Sandcock, letters sent.

I also printed out the article and placed it all over my building. On Friday alone, about 75 Marines read the story. Most had a similar reaction to me originally, sad and discusted. But later, we all came around, laughed at the people that have just basically pissed in their own cup. There is no way that the American Government is going to let this type of treatment continue. There is no way the American Public is going to let the American Government take no action on this matter.

AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT THE UNITED STATES MARINES ARE GOING TO RETREAT!!

If these people in Berkley think they can make the Marines retreat, they have to be tougher that the German War Machine in Bellau Wood in WWI, more numerous than the Japanese hordes on the islands of the Pacific, and more intense than any treatement dished out during the Batan Death March. They would have to be scarier than house to house fighting and urban warfare in Fallujah, and they would have to be tougher than chasing the Talaban through the mountains of Afganistan!

If these people think they can tell the U.S. Marines that they are not welcome and get them to run, they should review history a little more!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:04 am

Maybe we should encouage our mayors and city councils, and county supervisors to send and email to bazerkley to express to them that they (baerkley mayor and cronies) are not wanted in our cities/counties $\:D/$ or just send them emails ourselves =D>

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:33 am

These people stew me. Sent the mayor and email as follows:

Mr. Mayor,

I am deeply troubled to of your view, as well as that of Berkley's City Council, of our Armed Forces. In particular, your arrogance to say that the Maine Corps Recruiting Office is not welcome in your city, and your approval and encouragement of the group Code Pink to harass the Marines. Same on all of you! Your shallow thinking and narrow mindedness has exposed you to our GREAT country, i.e. the CITY of INTOLERANCE! You and your cronies have freedom of choice, just remember that that freedom of choice is made possible from the sacrifices of true patriots of the United States of America........Marines, Navy, Air Force, Army, and Coast Guard. Also note, our current military is made up of 100% volunteers. They made the choice to serve honorably, will continue to do so, and there's nothing that you or your city council that can ever take that away.

By the way, you or you cronies are not welcome in Fallbrook or San Diego!

Sincerely,
Scott Tant <><

Post by **Winston Cup** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:33 am

Marines refuse to leave Berkeley despute Council resolution

The Associated Press
Article Launched: 02/02/2008 04:42:20 PM PST

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_8151578

BERKELEY, Calif.â€”While anti-war protesters chained themselves outside a U.S. Marines recruiting center here, a spokesman said Corps does not plan to abandon the office even though the City Council has officially rolled up the welcome mat.

The Berkeley City Council voted Tuesday to tell the Marines that if its recruiters choose to stay in their rented downtown space "they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests."

Gunnery Sgt. Pauline Franklin said Friday that while the Corps respects city officials' right to free speech, the Marines would not be leaving.

Conservative bloggers and Republican Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, lashed out at Berkeley following Tuesday's resolution. DeMint said he would draft legislation to strip the city of federal money, including funds destined for UC Berkeley, for school lunches in the Berkeley Unified School District and public safety.

"The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money," DeMint said in a statement.

Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates said he would speak with the Marines' landlord to see if the recruiters could break their lease early without penalty.

A retired Army captain, Bates also said Friday that he wants the council to amend its resolution because it "did not adequately differentiate our respect and support for those serving in the armed forces and our opposition to the Iraq war policy."

Berkeley police arrested three of the protesters who chained themselves together and blocked people trying to enter the recruiting station. They were cited for misdemeanors and released.

Post by **Winston Cup** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:51 am

Found an online petition.

http://petition.moveamericaforward.org/Berkeley2008.asp

Pressure Is On The Berkeley Traitors

Posted by: Curt @ 9:49 am in Military, Moonbats

http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/02/ ... #more-3938

The pressure is getting to them folks. Lets keep it up:

Mayor Tom Bates offered Friday to help the U.S. Marines leave town by negotiating an end to the lease for their recruiting station, even as he backpedaled on a City Council resolution declaring the Corps â€œuninvited and unwelcome intrudersâ€ in the city.

In the face of an onslaught of pro-military criticism from around the country, Bates, a retired Army captain, also issued a statement that said the City Councilâ€™s resolution Tuesday night â€œdid not adequately differentiate our respect and support for those serving in the armed forces and our opposition to the Iraq war policy.â€ He said he would ask the council to modify the resolution at its next meeting, scheduled for Feb. 12.

A Marine Corps spokeswoman said Friday that the Corps has no intention of abandoning its space at 64 Shattuck Square that has been the subject of protests for months.

In an interview Friday, Bates said he has received more than 1,000 e-mails on the resolution, mostly from â€œthe right wing that has really seized up on this and mobilized to pound us.

â€œI spoke with the landlord, who is a very nice friend of mine, and the Marines have a year and a half to go,â€ Bates said. â€œIâ€™m sure if they wanted we could work it out (so they can leave) without penalty. The situation there has disrupted the whole block.â€

Bates said he wants the council to rewrite its item to focus on three issues: that Berkeley does not support the Iraq war; free speech is honored in Berkeley; and â€œgiven our druthers we would like the Marines to relocate.â€

â€œWe are against the war in Iraq, and when you put a recruiting station in our midst, people are going to use that symbol as a way to oppose it,â€ Bates said. â€œIf pro-war people want to come here, weâ€™ll give them a permit, too.â€

Gunnery Sgt. Pauline Franklin said the Corps â€œappreciatesâ€ the fact that the City Council is exercising its right to free speech.
â€œI canâ€™t predict the future, but I will tell you at this point there is no reason for us to leave,â€ Franklin said. â€œWe take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, and part of the Constitution is the right of free speech, and the fact that they are exercising their rights solidifies our resolve to continue what we are doing.â€

It should be noted that City Councilman Gordon Wozniak was the only one who opposed the measure against the Marine Corps, so a note of thanks to him would be appreciated.

Also, a petition has been started, check it out here and sign up.

CONTACTS
Mayor - Tom Bates
2180 Milvia Street, Berkeley, CA 94704
Email: mayor@ci.berkeley.ca.us
TEL: (510) 981-7100
FAX: (510) 981-7199
TDD: (510) 981-6903
Office Hours: Mon-Fri 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.
====================
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
====================
Linda Maio
Phone: (510) 981-7110
FAX: (510) 981-7111
Email: lmaio@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Darryl Moore
Phone: (510) 981-7120
Email: dmoore@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Maxwell Anderson
Phone: (510) 981-7130
Email: manderson@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Dona Spring
Phone: (510) 981-7140
Email: spring@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Laurie Capitelli
Phone: (510) 981-7150
Email: lcapitelli@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Betty Olds
Phone: (510) 981-7160
Email: olds@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Kriss Worthington
Phone: (510) 981-7170
Email: kworthington@ci.berkeley.ca.us

Gordon Wozniak
Phone: (510) 981-7180
Email: GWozniak@ci.berkeley.ca.us

City Auditor
Ann Marie
TEL: (510) 981-6750, TDD: (510) 981-6903
Office Hours: Mon-Fri, 8am-5pm
Email: auditor@ci.berkeley.ca.us

FunRunner · Post by **FunRunner** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 am

Way to go, Guy! I'll have to get busy on my e-mail....at the end add Gordon Wozniak for Mayor.....

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:52 pm

Looks like some of the loons are starting to back down.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/stat ... rines.html

gelwell · Post by **gelwell** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:45 pm

bout time what a bone head thing to do. But then again the Bay area thinks they are their own country anyway.

crash · Post by **crash** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:58 pm

Too bad they aren't. Them and the Hollywood Libs Huck it up for the rest of this state!!! I really think these people should have their own west coast state.......or maybe their own planet!!!!

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:01 pm

I say move'em all to Diego Garcia =D>

FunRunner · Post by **FunRunner** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:58 pm

crash wrote:Too bad they aren't. Them and the Hollywood Libs Huck it up for the rest of this state!!! I really think these people should have their own west coast state.......or maybe their own planet!!!!

They belong on another planet; absolutely, no doubt whatsoever; and that includes a lot of the Hollyweirdo's as well....

valen76 · Post by **valen76** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:49 pm

Old James Conway must have though it was rather funny.

The Marine official, speaking with FOX News on Friday, said Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway scoffed at the news, but there are no plans for to protest the City Council's decisions. There are definitely no plans to move the recruiting station either. "To actually put something into law that encourages the disruption of a federal office is ridiculous. They are not going to kick a federal office out of its rightful place there, and this is not going to discourage those young patriots who want to be Marines," the official said (FOX).

U.S. Senator Wants to Revoke Funding From City of Berkeley, Calif., for Vote to Boot Marines Feb 02, 2008. Fox News Corp. Feb 05 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html

Semper Fi

Post by **Woodglue** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:11 pm

Valen, just to keep things on the up-n-up, please see if you can find a weblink to source the content of your post.

valen76 · Post by **valen76** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:01 pm

Hey it's in the wide open sand section....I didn't realize that MLA format was required.

I did credit Fox news....

Yes I do know that the second line should be indented 5 spaces but I could not figure out how to make it stay that way once I submitted it.

Oh yeah...just giving you a hard time......

but you sound my Mother or my English teacher!

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:24 pm

weblink to source the content

Here she be

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html

valen76 · Post by **valen76** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:58 am

Yeah I went back and edited my privious post when woody got on to me about it....

Post by **Woodglue** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:07 am

Thanks Valen,
I've recently learned that BBS's could be found liable for hosting false information and that the best way to avoid liability was to include a weblink back to the source in the original post.

Sorry to harp, just wanting to keep it all legit around here.

Per the Bulletin Board Rules of Conduct:

* Information Accuracy
Any information posted on this bulletin board must be accompanied by a reasonable attempt to verify accuracy along with identification of the source or a link to the source. If accuracy cannot be verified, it must be stated as such by the author.

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:02 am

Batters up...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330419,00.html

redacted to make clear their intentions

or back tracking to get the money

or both

FunRunner · Post by **FunRunner** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:07 pm

'Supporting the Troops'
By Thomas Sowell
February 19, 2008

The Berkeley city council has made national news by telling Marine Corps recruiters that they are unwelcome in that bastion of the academic left.

It is a shame that Berkeley is not on some island in the South Pacific, because then they could be given their independence and left to defend themselves.

As it is, members of our armed forces who put their lives on the line to defend America are also defending people like too many in Berkeley for whom the very word America, and the American flag, bring only sneers.

Unfortunately, Berkeley is not unique. A professor at Harvard who put an American flag on his car after 9-11 provoked looks of astonishment from his colleagues. They wondered what was wrong with him.

All across the country, there are professors who push for keeping military recruiters off campus and for banning ROTC. Apparently if they don't like the military, then other people -- such as students -- should not be allowed to make up their own minds whether they want to join or not.

Liberals in general, and academics in particular, like to boast of their open-mindedness and acceptance of non-conformity. But they mean not conforming to the norms of society at large.

They have little or no tolerance to those who do not conform to the norms of academic political correctness. Nowhere else in America is free speech so restricted as on academic campuses with speech codes.

In Berkeley, as elsewhere, the left has learned to cloak their anti-military intolerance with the magic words, "We support the troops." The liberal media use the same line when they undermine the military.

In this, as in other things, the flagship of the media is the New York Times. Unsubstantiated charges against American troops in Iraq are front page news but incredible acts of heroism in battle are seldom reported there, if at all.

Although things go wrong in every war, things that went wrong in Iraq -- whether large or small -- have been front page news in the New York Times. But when the military surge was followed by things going right, the Iraq war was suddenly no longer front page news.

Back during the Vietnam war, the media criticized the American military for their emphasis on enemy casualties or "body count." Today the media have been fixated on American body count.

What has been accomplished by the troops who lost their lives in battle has been of no interest to those who claim to be "supporting the troops."

That thousands of Iraqis who fled the country during the height of the violence and turmoil are now returning is no big deal to the media.

Those in the military who made this possible by putting their own lives on the line are not heroes to the media. Indeed, one of the consistent patterns in the liberal media has been to depict the troops not as heroes but as victims.
The financial problems of some reservists who were called away from their civilian jobs were front page news in the New York Times. So were sorrowful goodbyes from family and friends.

All these things made the troops victims. So does body count.

Just last month, the New York Times found yet another way to portray the troops as victims. They ran a very long article, beginning on the front page of the January 13th issue, about killings in the United States by combat veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

"In many of those cases," it said, "combat trauma and the stress of deployment" were among the factors which "appear to have set the stage for a tragedy that was part destruction, part self-destruction."

As with so many other things said by liberals, the big question that was not asked was: Compared to what?

As the New York Post reported a couple of days later, the murder rate among returning military combat veterans is one-fifth that of civilians in the same age brackets.

So much for "supporting the troops" by depicting them as victims.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305. His Web site is http://www.tsowell.com.

Sandcock · Post by **Sandcock** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:40 am

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index ... =marines-i