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Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by Vincent J Brunasso » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:52 am

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by Glamisbound » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:36 am

Horrific situation for sure. My thoughts and prayers go out to all families involved.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by gelwell » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:14 pm

I was thinking the same thing about the sand drags when I first saw this accident on the news this morning. What's worse is the "drags" (if you can call it that) is an accident waiting to happen. With all those people going down the course all at the same time seems dangerous to me. I guess that's why I dont go to them. I just dont see the purpose and have the gut feeling its going to happen some day.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by RobC » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:47 pm

That is a very tragic event.
Unfortunately I think the drags are an accident waiting to happen, so I tend to avoid them. Besides, that's the best time to be out in the dunes riding.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:56 am

I think Sloppy is in for some rough days ahead. (not our sloppy of course)

I've said this exact thing about the sand drags, IIRC even here on these boards, for quite some time. I enjoy them, and even participate in them, but I always keep my family INSIDE a vehicle, a large truck at that, and show up early so that I can park towards the start line where the cars aren't reaching anywhere near the 100 MPH that I hit at the drags towards the end.

Unfortunately, it WILL happen.

You can't out legislate stupid.

People need to take responsibility for the risks they take, and standing near the path of a vehicle attempting to go as fast as the driver can make it go, on an uneven surface, is just asking for trouble. Well, they certainly got what they were asking for.

I suspect Obama will be on the TV soon telling us why no one should be in the desert with any type of motorized vehicle of any type.

Crazy stuff like this happens all the time in the Mexican races, but yet we hear very little about it.

Looks to me like some yahoo wanted to see his name everywhere, wrote a story, and, unfortunately all the major wires then picked it up.

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by L&L Corvairs » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:22 am

crash wrote: Looks to me like some yahoo wanted to see his name everywhere, wrote a story, and, unfortunately all the major wires then picked it up.

Uh, crash, if you are referring to the accident that happened last weekend at the Mojave 200….

This accident was national news. It was on all the major networks that night and still being discussed on Monday.

I otherwise agree with your comments 100%.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by crash » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:11 pm

L&L Corvairs wrote:
crash wrote: Looks to me like some yahoo wanted to see his name everywhere, wrote a story, and, unfortunately all the major wires then picked it up.

Uh, crash, if you are referring to the accident that happened last weekend at the Mojave 200….

This accident was national news. It was on all the major networks that night and still being discussed on Monday.

I otherwise agree with your comments 100%.
Yep, it was all over the place by Monday morning.........actually by Sunday, mid day, as it came through on a news wire I subscribe to..........but it was all the same report........almost to the word.......authored by one individual.

Sure this news would have made it's way out sooner or later, but this has the smell of a professional publicist that got HIS/HER story widely distributed through the paid use of news wire services.

If someone "in the loop" hadn't gotten the story out as fast as possible and as widely as possible, the situation would likely be much different....as far as the media fallout is concerned. Is it news that some people got killed while involved with an off road sport? No, not really. As we all know, it happens more often than it should or than we would like, but it is a bit odd that within 12 hours of this happening everybody from coast to coast knew about it. In my mind there is really only two possibilities as to the motivation behind it's grand standing. Either a freelence reporter wanted to get his/her name out there through the writting of a possibly sensational story, or there were elements at the race looking just as hard for something bad to write about the off road "culture", as these people wanted to experience being dangerously close to the action. I like to think it was the former and not the later, but you would be foolish not to realize that a professional writter put this story together VERY quickly after it occured and then widely dissemenated it.

Sure there still would have been some local interviews done with other people from the scene later, and there would have been lots of stuff about it in local news papers, but this is something completely different. This was force fed media. Make no mistake about it.

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by L&L Corvairs » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:33 am

Well, crash, respectfully, I’ll have to disagree with you.

The Mojave 200 is a reasonably well known off road race and it is natural to expect some media people to be there.

1. I don’t believe that spectators are killed so regularly at off road races in the United States that such incidents aren’t newsworthy. If you can provide data stating otherwise, I’ll reconsider this point. Data to me would mean multiple incidents. One isn’t enough. Five would make me think about it. TEN, and I might have to agree with you. Those incidents need to be in the last five years, remember I said regularly.

2. EIGHT people died and 14 were airlifted to hospitals at a racing/sporting event. That isn’t national news?

3. This hit the TV news almost immediately after it happened, all channels, local and national, accompanied by footage shot by spectators at the scene, not by professional news people.

4. The idea of ‘newswire’ services is to spread the word.

I don’t see a ‘news’ conspiracy here. If this happened at the drags at Glamis, I’d expect the same type and amount of coverage.

Now, is it sensationized? You bet. Our entire media, especially mainstream media, sensationalize everything they can. They no longer just report facts and information without ‘spinning’ it. But then, they haven’t for over 30 yrs.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by crash » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:36 am

Two points here.

First I never said that people die all the time at these races. I said in the "off road sport". HUGE difference.

Second, that said, I have friends and neighbors that are drivers in MANY off road races both here and in Mexico. They have related to me some really amazing stories about what goes on during some of these races, and yes, sometimes it results in many people being hurt or even some being killed.

To speak a little broader here, think about this. Would we be having this type of news coverage, or even these types of tragic events if the desert races hadn't been focused and channeled so that all the participants had to go through one particular spot in the desert? Or on one particular trail through the desert? The practices that have been mandated by the government institutions, based upon complaints from eco orgs have created an environment where off road racers are neccessarily pushed into only being able to go on particular paths, just as we dune users have been. This allows spectators and those that would seek out the danger of getting "close to the action" a much easier way to do so because they KNOW where the vehicles will be, and they KNOW where the most likely place for an incident will be. Again, this is what some not so intelligent people were looking for by going to "the Rock Pile". If someone was going to crash, they wanted to see it, they sought out this particular spot for that particular reason, they wanted to be "close engough to touch the vehicles", and they got everything they wanted.......only problem is they paid with their lives, and the press was more than happy to be there to capture it and to sensationalize it.

Again, forgetting the fact that the current state of environmental rules turned a sport that used to be dangerous for little more than the participants into something that apparently, according to some, the sanctioning bodies are now responsible for everyone that may be or in fact is out in the public lands during the same time an event is going on, what is the motivation behind this particular incident being broadcast so widely and so completely to the masses? What's YOUR opinion as to why this was done L&L? Is it advances in technologies? Certain people looking to put nails into off road racing's preverbial coffin? Is this one or a group of reporters looking for fame? Or is this, as you suggest, just the way it is? Dig a little deeper. I don't think what you find will be a comfortable thing.

But that's just my opinion.

Your opinions may vary.:)

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by WoodIsGood » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:30 am

Let me first express my condolences to those who knew any of the people hurt or killed in this tragic accident.
crash wrote: . . . apparently, according to some, the sanctioning bodies are now responsible for everyone that may be or in fact is out in the public lands during the same time an event is going on . . .
This is the crux of the problem in my mind. If this accident were to have happened in most any other place in the world there would be no fear of lawsuits because the people involved were all voluntary participants and were responsible for their own actions. Therefore, there would be no fear of this incident negatively impacting the future of similar events.

I think that it is ridiculous to require the race organizer to do anything beyond posting warnings at entry points and near road and trail crossings that a race is going on (alert the public to the race), routing the race away from historically congested areas (don't put innocent people in harms way), and having a reasonable number of EMTs on hand in case things go awry. If people want to intentionally put themselves in harms way because they enjoy the thrill of being close to the action that should be their prerogative. But, since the danger is clear to anyone with the IQ of a 4 year old, any lawsuit they might file should be laughed out of court. However, we live in the litigious USA, where personal responsibility isn't a widely held ideal so it's almost always deemed someone else's fault when bad things happen.

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by L&L Corvairs » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:52 pm

LOL…well crash, you do have an eloquent way of sliding in a different direction. Now you want me to buy into or discuss the potential idea of a combined conspiracy between the environmentalists, the government and the media to shut down off road racing and that they intentionally worked to create a situation where a major accident would result in multiple deaths (which, if it were true, would be a conspiracy to commit murder) and to insure that the media was there to capture it all. Should we throw in some Black Helicopters as well? Sorry dude. ROFLMAO. You go guy.

When an airplane falls out of the sky, or a bus load of kids slides off bridge, or 12 people drown in a river, or a nutcase unloads his guns on his co-workers, or a NASCAR (remember Carl Edwards) race car hits the fence and people in the stands get hurt, it’s tragic and it’s newsworthy. It is true that many more people die in much more mundane ways then any of the above scenarios. Like backyard pools and DUIs. That’s the way the media works.

Perhaps I’m completely confused, but my original comments and the discussion in general was a debate as to if THIS accident was unfairly and over reported in the media. I don’t think so. You are correct, our opinions will differ.

Yes, there are groups that would like to see all off roading removed from the desert and they’ve scored many victories. But IIRC, the recommendation was that spectators stay a minimum of 100 ft away from the course.

So, no, wood, and I know it sounds callus, but I don’t have any sympathy for those killed. Darwin was working on improving the gene pool. Here’s your sign. You couldn’t pay me enough $$$ to stand that close to speeding race cars. That’s why I stay the heck away from the drags.

Crash does have one point. This accident will have a profound impact on off road desert racing in this country.
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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by WoodIsGood » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:59 am

L&L Corvairs wrote:So, no, wood, and I know it sounds callus, but I don’t have any sympathy for those killed. Darwin was working on improving the gene pool. Here’s your sign. You couldn’t pay me enough $$$ to stand that close to speeding race cars. That’s why I stay the heck away from the drags.
I never said I felt sorry for those killed - I expressed my condolences to those who knew them. Those killed or hurt in the crash made a poor decision and it cost them their life or health. It was their decision alone; no one else made them do it and no one but themselves (not the driver, the BLM, or the race organizer) is responsible for the outcome.

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by crash » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:57 pm

Now you are trying to draw conclusions about what I said that are far from the words of what I said.

I never said there was a conspiracy. I don't know where you got that from.

What there is is a slippery slope created by false assumptions that were acted upon by government entities that are now having a profound affect, not only on the participants of this event, the spectators of this event, the organizers of this event, the BLM, etc, but also possibly, on the public at large and the further restriction/taking of their right to be FREE.

Conspiracy to commit murder? Never said anything of the sort. A slippery slope that leads directly to the reduction in freedoms to individuals in this country.....you betcha!

Our elephant of freedom is being eaten one little bite at a time!

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Re: Look Out Sand Drags.

Post by gelwell » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:22 am

I dont know if anyone has noticed but in subsequent follow up stories ol Danny boy has been chiming in as well as the CBD. For the life of me why are these guys being sought out? They have nothing to do with the story other than pointing out how dangerous off roading is. Duh we all know that. This story has nothing to do with their cause and them in it is irresponsible reporting.
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