REOPEN COMP?

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Should the IV BOS recall the COMP closure?

YES
37
56%
NO
19
29%
UNDECIDED
9
14%
WHAT COMP CLOSURE
1
2%
 
Total votes: 66

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REOPEN COMP?

Post by Radrat »

How do you feel about this.
I say reopen comp. Continue the massive law enforcement and pinch points.
Chuck Mobley, Dunecologist
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Post by xjruss »

I'm still on the fence about this. I know that it is not fair to the group as a whole to be punished for the actions of a few, but I also feel that the curfew was effective in stopping the "rave" scene. In my opinion, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for law enforcement to lift the curfew immediately, if they did this, then the partiers would say, "It was just that one weekend, now we can party at comp again...".

On the other hand...

If we have the amount of LEOs (150? Which I believe is 5X what we've had in the past) we had this past T-day weekend on every holiday weekend, they might be able to get it done by just sticking to the zero tolerance policy. That's a big "MIGHT" though...

Like I said, I'm on the fence.

Russ

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Post by Radrat »

I understand where your coming from Russ. And it makes alot of sense. But, heck last year without the closure the heavy LEO presence did a great job of handling Comp on New Years. I say they continue that approach.
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Post by Jason G »

I say leave it open, just inforce the laws the most effective way possible. If that requires the national guard so be it. But NO closures at all.

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Post by xjruss »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand where your coming from Russ. And it makes alot of sense. But, heck last year without the closure the heavy LEO presence did a great job of handling Comp on New Years. I say they continue that approach.
A whole other question is, when will the BLM and ICBOS be satisfied? I'm sure many people agree with you Chuck, about how things went last year. I try to be optimistic about the situation and I want to believe they will lift the curfew(s) when things calm down and return the dunes to the "duners". But we all know that "common sense" isn't one of the BLM's strong suits so who knows what the outcome will be.

As a few others have said, I am willing to take a step backward if it will get us to where we want to be in the end. I'm trying to keep some faith in the BLM/ICBOS, and am hoping they will hold up to their word.

Russ

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Post by The Oldtimer »

I'm sorta perched on the fence about this issue. On the one hand, the curfew worked...for Comp. It also did exactly what many of you predicted...it just made the crowd move to Olds, and the rowdies tagged along, which led to the "unlawful assembly' saga, and this is what seems to have p****d everyone off. Then the crowd just ended up scattered down the Olds sand highway and Garbage Flats.

The problem will not go away until the rowdies get the message that that type of behavior in not acceptable. Is a temporary curfew the answer?

In my opinion...a cautious "yes"...but what makes me cautious is the fear that in order to succeed, it may get worse before it gets better. The curfew may spread to other areas, Olds being the next nighttime area to fall.

The rowdies have to be convinced that coming to Glamis to wreak havoc is likely to result in fines or jail time. Until that happens, crowd control will be the tactic that the LEO's use, because it works, whether we want to admit it or not. The hard part may be trying to convince the LEO in charge that the heavy handed tactics by some of the LEO's must be addressed. I realize that you can't treat the perps with kid gloves, but the LEO's have to accept the fact that they will lose some duner support if they don't use a little common sense. Not all of them...just some of them.

On the other hand, I do understand that it is a daunting task to control that large of a crowd with so few LEO's, and it can get spooky out there, especially at night. It's a thankless job.

Ahhh ...what the *^&% do I know...??? :oops: :oops:
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Post by SailAway »

No fence sitting here for me. Even if this would have been the right move (which it was not, judging by Thanksgiving weekend), it was done in the wrong way. It was done the way the "other" side does it... no public input, no stakeholder assistance, a small group influencing the legislative process.

Last weekend all the bad guys did was move from one place to the other. Not one would be able to say "man, did we learn our lesson." Unless, of course, you're talking about them being disbursed from Olds? Well now, what makes anyone think they wouldn't have learned the same lesson HAD IT BEEN DONE AT COMP FIRST???!!!

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Post by Greg Hall »

I do still support the curfew of comp but I must say that I would have preferred to use the increased LEO force to systematically make use of pinch points, ticketing, hook-up and seizure of property in an effort to "learn" those that are causing problems that they are no longer welcome.

We have been feeding that stray cat (sorry Flo) for far too long...the stray currently feels welcome...time to let the big dogs out!

I am not qualified to second guess professionally trained law enforcement and will not do so. It is just that I would rather have seen the use of some other methods. Now Olds is a mess, but in the long run, I am confident that we will regain control.
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Post by xjruss »

? Well now, what makes anyone think they wouldn't have learned the same lesson HAD IT BEEN DONE AT COMP FIRST???!!!
Hi Vicki,
I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers or anything, but if they had disbursed the crowd from comp (w/o the curfew), wouldn't they have moved to Olds anyway? I'm failing to see how that wouldn't put us in the same boat we are in right now?

Russ

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Post by Radrat »

The only way they will lift the curfew(closure) is if we the duners and the lead organizations band together and demand it. I'll give them New Years. But, Christmas, MLK, Prez Day and Easter no way! I hate to see OLDS trashed anyway and after everyone moved to OLDS it was trashed. I say reopen COMP but, control the crowds like you did last year.
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Post by The Oldtimer »

Point taken, Vicki...I didn't want to address how the whole thing was set in place because I have no way of knowing what actually transpired when the BoS came out with this plan.

Chuck, since it was successful as far as they are concerned, I doubt if anything will change for the entire duning season. They are trying to send a message to the rowdies.

I would like to see the BoS and the Sheriff's Dept at least listen to some input from someone like Roy Denner to see if we can at least be heard, but they don't need our approval to do anything.

For me personally, the hard part about addressing this topic is keeping my emotions in check, because that tends to cloud my judgement!!
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Post by 350r4trx »

so have there be a curfew at comp whatever... for temporary time. not closure of comp..


olds is trashed anyone who said no to reopening comp needs to OPEN their eyes to the TRASH at OLDS now....

we don't want olds like comp... besides my truck can't make itup olds :cry: i think it could make it up comp but never tried since i'm usually there with my bike runnin the hill.

ryan

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Post by xjruss »

olds is trashed anyone who said no to reopening comp needs to OPEN their eyes to the TRASH at OLDS now....
Isn't the goal to get rid of the people who are leaving the trash in the first place?

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Post by SailAway »

xjruss wrote:
? Well now, what makes anyone think they wouldn't have learned the same lesson HAD IT BEEN DONE AT COMP FIRST???!!!
Hi Vicki,
I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers or anything, but if they had disbursed the crowd from comp (w/o the curfew), wouldn't they have moved to Olds anyway? I'm failing to see how that wouldn't put us in the same boat we are in right now?

Russ
Russ, you're right, they would have moved to Olds, as they moved to the drags when chased from Olds last weekend. And the procedure would have to be repeated the next night, and again they would move, until they are tired of being under scrutiny and then they'll head to Superstition or Dumont.

The only difference is the closure. It didn't save money, it didn't save manpower and it sure didn't enhance the Glamis experience.

And it didn't work... so now that they've gone for broke, where do they go from here? By skipping Plan "A" altogether we're ever so much closer to total closure :(

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Post by ENDANGERED DUNER »

I'm not sure if I support the curfew or not but shouldn't we give it more than just one weekend before we call it a failure? I wonder what people will be saying if somehow the curfew did work and by next TG the majority of the rowdies have moved on and curfew is removed. Would you still be so bitter about the curfew then?
Are we there yet....?

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Post by xjruss »

I'm not sure if I support the curfew or not but shouldn't we give it more than just one weekend before we call it a failure? I wonder what people will be saying if somehow the curfew did work and by next TG the majority of the rowdies have moved on and curfew is removed. Would you still be so bitter about the curfew then?
I tend to agree with you but I can also understand where people on the opposite side of the fence are coming from. I think we all have an extreme passion and love for the dunes and ever since the ILLEGAL closures back in 2000(?) it has been a never ending battle.

We all allow our emotions to show through our comments and it is perfectly understandable, I become sick to my stomach when I think about the milk vetch situation. It seems so blatantly wrong what was taken from us, we have proof that the milk vetch is not threatened and that the law was broken when the closures were implemented. Yet the closures remain...

And now we have the "raver" situation to deal with...

Every so often we see a little bit of sunshine in the sky, but most of the time, it seems like it's grey for as far as the eye can see.

I may not sound like it from this post, but I do still have hope.

Russ

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Post by FLYING TIGER »

A temp closure during high crowd visits seems to be working.

It worked at the sandbars at the river, Havasu and in Palm Springs & Ft Lauderdale ,,, Controlling large concentrations of violent people for safetys sake is fine by me.

The closeure was a total of 36 hours.

No BFD,, the spirit of this closure had nothing to do with our struggles with the CBD.

Read back 2 years to past posts how horrified people were with the violence at Comp.

Many of these same posters are now b*tching that anything was done.

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Post by madweazl »

Its just a ****** deal all together I guess. I think if they keep getting chased off they will eventually leave though. I know when I was younger and up to no good we were always looking for a place to be left alone. Now I wasnt a violent hoodlum but we were probably throwing trash around (not me personally, I've always been pretty good about that) and just being a general nuisance, though we didnt think we were bothing any body. Hopefully the new hoodlums will react the same way and we will have the existing dunes back. Now we need to grab the other 100k acres somehow.
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Post by OBSESSED »

You fence sitters will get something up yer arse if you are not careful!
:lol:

Seriously it does not matter; the powers that be want to try it their way and the rest of us must sit through it peacefully and patiently. NOT! I am not patient about no closure. Temp or otherwise. Duners get screwed again. Duners again have no voice in it.

OPEN COMP and Enforce ALL the RULES!

Maybe, quit lying to us about how the beefed up Law enforcement was working; I saw that it was. So it was, but maybe not good enough for the BOS?

Again I say:

OPEN COMP-Pinch Points work. Do it again. If you're going to enforce "ZERO Tolerance" Do it 100% of the time, to 100% of offenders.

The Law Enforcement people haven't tried that yet….

Why not?

F it I'm duning to The Wall....
One of these days...

SB
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Post by schraderrl »

When I am not sure of something I stop trying to analyze it and go with my first impression / gut feeling. If one starts to use reasoning you’ll find you can almost justify anything by using a liberal imagination, “just a little more money” or “just a few more laws”
If it feels wrong it probably is.
I was not out there last weekend but I bet the people that were must have wondered what side of the border they were on.

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Post by Sean250R »

Open it back up,thats what I say.Hey it`s a poll right? I believe closing it,gives some the "appearance" or "illusion" that the problems been taken care of.We all know nothings changed,except for another closure,rammed down our throats.You`d think we were an asset,to the BLM,considering all the revenue etc...I follow the rules,& support (& respect) law enforcement efforts.I hope our efforts at making this work together (with the BLM) isn`t wasted.Sean

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Post by subspecies1 »

darn it :) ... I see both sides... on one hand the holiday temp closures (god I hate that word) do make the overly rowdy type move elsewhere - is that good if it's where you are though... on the other hand the Law pushing hard and just enforcing the rules (bare none) sure sounds less resricting - as long as the crowds don't get out of control when being controled... yeah I just don't feel it either way yet both have good and bad points... either way I hope the trouble makers eventually get the message and then there will be no problems... right :?:


the good old days - where'd they go :?
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Post by Radrat »

FLYING TIGER wrote:A temp closure during high crowd visits seems to be working.


Read back 2 years to past posts how horrified people were with the violence at Comp.

Many of these same posters are now b*tching that anything was done.
It's not about getting rid of the violence. Everyone want's that.
It's about closing one area then another, then another, and so on. The LEO's were doing a great job of controling comp after TG last year. While we can't second guess what would have happened this year we can say that last year was working. Why not continue what they were doing last year? Why close another area. What are we all gonna' say when they close every spot? Or when they decide they can't control it and close the entire dunes on major holidays. Again I swallowed it for TG, I can even swallow it for New Years(barely) but, the rest of the season? Their is no point in it. It becomes another closure at that point.
Chuck Mobley, Dunecologist
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