Maps of RAMP Alternatives

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Vincent J Brunasso
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Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

Alt 1.JPG
Alternative 1 above - closures before the lawsuit settlement that brought the temporary closures - the baseline Alternative to which the others are compared
Alt 2.JPG
Alternative 2 above
Alt 3.JPG
Alternative 3 above
Alt 4.JPG
Alternative 4 above
Alt 5.JPG
Alternative 5 above
Alt 6.JPG
Alternative 6 above
Alt 7.JPG
Alternative 7 above
Alt 8.JPG
Alternative 8 above - the preferred Alternative
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

To be clear, when Vince posted the following text;
Alternative 8 above - the preferred Alternative
he is noting that Alternative 8 is the BLM's preferred Alternative. It too has it's flaws (lots of camping area being closed off).

These maps are a good starting point in your review. But, they do not tell the whole story. Let's take Alternative 4 as an example:
Alt4 OHV.jpg
Above is the ALT 4 OHV Map. It shows more OHV accessible area than we currently have. This looks pretty good... right? Wrong. [-X
Alt4 Geo.jpg
Above is another ALT 4 Map. This one shows Lands that are available for Geothermal Leasing. With the exception of the Wilderness Area north of Hwy78, the entire ISDRA is being opened up to Geothermal Leasing! Perhaps someone here can show that I'm wrong, but I think that leased land = fenced land and is thereby as good as "closed" even though the OHV map is showing more OHV accessible area than we currently have.

The OHV access maps are a good starting point to pick your favorite one or two alternatives and read on.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by MattV »

Has the ASA endorsed any of the alternatives? Are there plans to do so? There are a great many things to consider this tome around, with all of the geothermal and solar considerations. It would be good to all be on the same page if we can. Of course, that page could also be "none of the above" or some combination of multiple alternatives.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

MattV wrote:Has the ASA endorsed any of the alternatives? Are there plans to do so? There are a great many things to consider this tome around, with all of the geothermal and solar considerations. It would be good to all be on the same page if we can. Of course, that page could also be "none of the above" or some combination of multiple alternatives.
Since its inception, the ASA has toiled toward the goal of reopening the 49,000 acres of temporary closures.

In my opinion, all the alternatives, except #1 (the baseline 1987 RAMP), have disadvantages. It is difficult for the ASA to recommend any one of the other seven without calling for significant changes to it.

ASA has contracted with recreation and biological professionals to review the DRAMP. Once we have their recommendations and professional opinions, they will be made available to our members as well as the consolidated ASA comments.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by DuneRookie »

Since its inception, the ASA has toiled toward the goal of reopening the 49,000 acres of temporary closures.

In my opinion, all the alternatives, except #1 (the baseline 1987 RAMP), have disadvantages. It is difficult for the ASA to recommend any one of the other seven without calling for significant changes to it.

ASA has contracted with recreation and biological professionals to review the DRAMP. Once we have their recommendations and professional opinions, they will be made available to our members as well as the consolidated ASA comments.

Any chance of making the comments private or not necessarily viewable by the average person? Guess I dont want to give the other side a clue until we actually present our side. [-X Does that make sense?

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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

DuneRookie wrote:Any chance of making the comments private or not necessarily viewable by the average person? Guess I dont want to give the other side a clue until we actually present our side. [-X Does that make sense?
I've been thinking about this too. It makes good sence, but I think it would be pretty difficult to keep out plan out of the wrong hands. On the bbs, everyone can see it (Hello CBD! 8) ). ASA's mass e-mails are certainly being received by the oppostion. ASA's website is accessible by everyone. Heck, even e-mailing it out by request only would not guarantee that the opposition doesn't get it.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Sloppyduner »

If everybodys comment is equil during the public comment period, and if we have sound science on our side what different does it make what we post concerning the DRAMP?
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

I agree with you Jon.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by gelwell »

Woodglue wrote:
DuneRookie wrote:Any chance of making the comments private or not necessarily viewable by the average person? Guess I dont want to give the other side a clue until we actually present our side. [-X Does that make sense?
I've been thinking about this too. It makes good sence, but I think it would be pretty difficult to keep out plan out of the wrong hands. On the bbs, everyone can see it (Hello CBD! 8) ). ASA's mass e-mails are certainly being received by the oppostion. ASA's website is accessible by everyone. Heck, even e-mailing it out by request only would not guarantee that the opposition doesn't get it.
I think we can have a private area on the bbs, we know who most of the players are and some of the fringe. We are getting down to the first meeting next week and I would like to have some points to bring up at that meeting. Perhaps we could all come up with them on the private board.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

Good idea Gene.
Anyone who has a BBS user name "that we know" can be given access. The only trouble is that lurkers would be excluded, and I would be reluctant to bring in any unknown / new BBS members into that private forum.
I can ask a moderator to set that up for us. :wink:
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Sorry guys, but IMO, a ‘private’ discussion page is really going to be a waste. I’ll participate (if allowed), but this is a debate on comments on a Management Plan. (The RAMP). There really isn’t anything to hide. All comments actually submitted to the BLM will become a matter of public record. Any comment that the BLM actually uses to make changes to the RAMP will have to include supporting data that they (the BLM) did not know about, consider or data they ignored. If our supporting data for RAMP changes is solid, hiding it from the CBD won’t matter.

Now, if we were to be discussing legal strategy related to a potential lawsuit against the RAMP, which would be premature at this point, then I would agree, that should be kept private.

YMMV
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

Good point.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by ChoppedLiver »

What about another RAMP conference? Many of you may not know that there was a off-road group united conference for the first RAMP. It consisted of ASA, SDORC, Cal-4Wheel, AMA and I believe CORVA. These groups met, dissected and made a united comment on the DRAMP and made there own comments. I attended this conference and found it useful. While we don't need all the dissecting that we did before, we do need to look for hidden stuff and make a united stand whatever that may be.

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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by L&L Corvairs »

ChoppedLiver wrote:What about another RAMP conference? Many of you may not know that there was a off-road group united conference for the first RAMP. It consisted of ASA, SDORC, Cal-4Wheel, AMA and I believe CORVA. These groups met, dissected and made a united comment on the DRAMP and made there own comments. I attended this conference and found it useful. While we don't need all the dissecting that we did before, we do need to look for hidden stuff and make a united stand whatever that may be.
I think that's an excellent idea.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Sloppyduner »

Great idea Ron. I was thinking Why, so far, only meeting by the BLM? Why not have a meeting, or three of our(ASA) own? I've been reading through this but haven't gotten very far.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

Sloppyduner wrote: Why not have a meeting, or three of our(ASA) own?
Need a coordinator, speakers, sound equipment, projector, a powepoint developed, etc, etc, etc, and $$$.

Who's stepping up?
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

I'll assist where I can...
That said, I don't have speakers, sound equipment, projector, powerpoint skills or $$$.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Woodglue »

DJW sent me a PM, said he's got some stuff we can use
here

Also a Barco Light Canon and 10ft X 14ft Projection screen.

I don't know if this is everything we need, but it looks like a good start if nothing else.
My Avatar is BLM's DRAMP Proposed OHV Access under Alt #3.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by DuneRookie »

Now, if we were to be discussing legal strategy related to a potential lawsuit against the RAMP, which would be premature at this point, then I would agree, that should be kept private.

This is more what I meant. Legal opinions and such. But agree the general stuff should be open.

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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

DuneRookie wrote:
Now, if we were to be discussing legal strategy related to a potential lawsuit against the RAMP, which would be premature at this point, then I would agree, that should be kept private.

This is more what I meant. Legal opinions and such. But agree the general stuff should be open.
I don't think there is much sense in keeping our comments a secret. Those that want closure know what we will say and what we want - they also know the holes in their arguments. Depriving a fellow duner of many legitimate comments might do us more harm than good.
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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by DuneRookie »

Vincent J Brunasso wrote:
DuneRookie wrote:
Now, if we were to be discussing legal strategy related to a potential lawsuit against the RAMP, which would be premature at this point, then I would agree, that should be kept private.

This is more what I meant. Legal opinions and such. But agree the general stuff should be open.
I don't think there is much sense in keeping our comments a secret. Those that want closure know what we will say and what we want - they also know the holes in their arguments. Depriving a fellow duner of many legitimate comments might do us more harm than good.

I thought about that as well. I don't disagree.

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Re: Maps of RAMP Alternatives

Post by alanbmx »

So what ever happened with all of these alternitives, as of now it is the baseline alternitive 1, did they agree to not make a decision? It has been 2 years and I have looked all over the internet for a decision but all I find are proposals :?:

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