SB 742

Issues relating to the California Off Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation / Green Sticker Fund

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SB 742

Post by GRANT@FUNCO » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:57 am

As some of you may know , SB742 is the bill to rewrite Californias broken OHV program. Negotitions have been taking place since last Feb . The OHV Orginazations have done an excellent job especially in it's solidarity ,speaking with one voice and carrying a unified message. Below is a copy of the latest update from the negotiating team .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*This update was authored by Pete Conaty. As he states, we (Pete, Terry, and Don Amador) have been going to a lot of meetings regarding said subject.

OHV Leaders:

Previous reports of the demise of SB 742 have proven to be premature.

As was approved by the 10 major off road recreational and business groups who were actively participating in negotiating SB 742, the off road community and the environmental community continued to negotiate with the Department of Parks and Recreation acting as the facilitator after Senator Steinberg announced that he was dropping the bill two weeks ago.

An estimated 20 hours (including a weekend meeting) of negotiations have taken place since then. We have been making some progress. We were all surprised last Friday, July 6, when we were told that SB 742 was to be amended yet again.

Please be assured that neither side, especially the off road community had ever agreed to these amendments – so when you see the amendments, do not get excited.

Because of these amendments, the DPR-led negotiating group met with Senator Steinberg and his staff on July 9 to find out what was going on.

In that meeting, Senator Steinberg told us he had decided to try to keep the bill moving. He also was brought up to speed on our progress and most importantly he stated that he would accept any reasonable agreements that are worked out by the parties.

So SB 742 was heard in the Assembly Water, Parks & Wildlife committee on Tuesday, July 10, as amended with testimony by all sides that we will continue to work in good faith. The vote in committee was 8-3. (One Republican, Assemblyman Tom Berryhill, gave a courtesy “Aye” vote at the request of the OHV community so that negotiations can continue without missing a legislative deadline.)

We will continue to work on the bill and when both the enviros and OHV sides have a proposed solution, we will bring it to the OHV Leadership for discussion and a vote on the agreed upon provisions.

If we don’t reach agreement by the time the bill goes to Assembly Appropriations Committee (around August 20th) we will all walk away from SB 742 and introduce our own OHV legislation.

In order to reach an agreement, we may not get all that we want, but we should be able to support a functional OHV program that is ecologically balanced. The key provisions that we have already been successful on include:

The OHMVR Commission becomes mostly advisory in nature. This is similar to federal resource advisory councils.

The Governor gets 2 more appointments to the Commission giving him 5 appointments which effectively gives him control of the Commission (which is customary in 95% of all the state boards & commissions in California )

The restriction on red sticker vehicles has been removed.

No new rules on trespass or requiring the rider to get permission from the owner to go on private property

No license plate on motorcycles and ATVs

Increase O & M grants to 50% of the grant program. More funds will be available for on-the-ground trail projects and maintenance.

A more stewardship or holistic oriented “Restoration” pot where said funds can be used to restore or rehabilitate trails closed in a legal NEPA process. Relevant OHV studies may be funded as well.

So we need the off road community to “take the high road” and hang in there a little longer. Launching mean spirited and disingenuous attacks like the enviros did last week is not the path we should take at this time.

We will keep you posted.

You may use this information on your websites and send it to other websites

From Pete Conaty, Terry McHale, & Don Amador
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Post by Washroad » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:02 am

Thank you for the update, Grant! I know you're on top of this! and the rest of the guys working on it, a giant...

THANK YOU!
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:10 am

All I can say about SB742, if your buying into the five Governors appointments your being snookered, that it if the Senate gets to confirm them all and they still get to keep their two, which the Governor has no say over. Who gave us Spitler and Thomas? the Senate should have no say over any of the Governors appointments, unless they give up their two unconditional appointments. There is a major difference across the board over the Governors appointees, between the ones that need confirmation and the ones that don't, we better take a long hard look at this one. Also with the Governors slow performance on filling seats, can they handle any more? one just has to ask..TJ
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Post by ChuckZilla » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:15 pm

Thank-you Grant!!
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SB 742 ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE August 22, 2007

Post by tomjeeps2 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:26 pm

SB 742
Page 1

Date of Hearing: August 22, 2007

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
Mark Leno, Chair

SB 742 (Steinberg) - As Amended: July 9, 2007

Policy Committee: Water, Parks &
Wildlife Vote: 9-3

Urgency: No State Mandated Local Program:
Yes Reimbursable: No

SUMMARY

This bill extends, by five years to January 1, 2013, the sunset
on the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle (OHV) program at the Department
of Parks and Recreation, and makes substantial changes to the
administration of the OHV program, the fiscal resources
available to support the program, and how these resources are to
be spent on program priorities and OHV facility grants.

FISCAL EFFECT

1)Substantial ongoing costs, $21 million in 2007-08 and $42
million annually thereafter, to DPR to continue the OHV
program beyond its current January 1, 2008 sunset. (OHV Trust
Fund comprised of revenue generated by related fees and a $50
million annual transfer from the Motor Vehicle Fuel Account
(MVFA))

2)Substantial ongoing costs, in the range of $21 million
annually starting in 2008-09, to DPR to continue to award
OHV-related grants for facility development, trail
restoration, and enforcement activities beyond the current
January 1, 2008 sunset. (OHV Trust Fund and Recreational
Trails Fund)

3)Moderate costs, $250,000 in 2007-08 and $750,000 annually
thereafter, to support the continued activities and a larger
membership of the OHV Commission. (OHV Trust Fund)

4)Substantial revenue, in the range of $10 million in 2007-08
and $24 million annually thereafter, resulting from the $50
identification plate fee imposed every two years on OHV








SB 742
Page 2

owners. (OHV Trust Fund)

5)Moderate costs, in the range of $250,000 annually starting in
2007-08, to the DMV to establish and administer the OHV
identification plate program and to impose and collect the
related fee. These costs are covered by fee revenue. (Motor
Vehicle Account)

SUMMARY CONTINUED

Specifically, this bill:

1)Increases the membership of the OHV Commission from seven to
nine, by adding two gubernatorial appointees, and reduces the
commission's role in the OHV program by removing its authority
to approve grants and to approve all capital outlay
expenditures of the OHV Division.
2)Requires the commission to report to the Legislature and
governor by January 1, 2011, and triennially thereafter
(instead of the current biennial requirement), on the status
of the OHV program and OHV recreation, the results of the OHV
strategic plan (currently being prepared and with a deadline
extended by four years to 2009 by this bill), the condition of
state OHV trails, grant program accomplishments,
recommendations for changing grant distribution formulae to
better ensure program sustainability, restoration activities,
and other related issues.

3)Requires the OHV Division to place information on its website
regarding OHV recreation opportunities, related laws and
regulations, maps of OHV areas and facilities, safety
information and trail etiquette, and information designed to
reduce the incidence of trespass and damage to natural
resources.

4)Overhauls the OHV grants program, as follows:

a) Requires DPR, not the division or the commission, to
administer the grants program and requires the program to
support both motorized recreation and motorized off-highway
access to nonmotorized recreation.

b) Specifies state agencies are eligible to receive a
grant, requires DPR to establish maximum amounts for each
grant awarded, and requires the DPR director to approve all








SB 742
Page 3

grants.

c) Requires, for all funds appropriated by the Legislature
for OHV grants in a given year, 50% to be awarded for OHV
facility projects, 25% for restoration and damage repair
activities, 20% for law enforcement, and 5% for safety and
education programs.

d) Requires, for grants awarded for law enforcement
activities, that 40% go to local agencies, 30% to the U.S.
Bureau of Land Management, and 30% to the U.S. Forest
Service.

e) Transfers, from the OHV Division to the DPR, the
responsibility to conduct audits of projects awarded grants
under the program.

5)Increases, from 30% to 100%, the percentage of motor vehicle
fuel tax revenue transferred to the Conservation and
Enforcement Services Account (currently $32 million annually)
allocated to restoration activities and eliminates the
allocation to conservation activities, enforcement activities,
and OHV traffic control.

6)Deletes the method by which the amount of fuel tax revenue to
be transferred from the MVFA to the OHV Trust Fund is
determined, and instead specifies that the transfer amount is
based on the percent (of total revenue) transferred in
2006-07, adjusted every five years based on trends in vehicle
registration and OHV recreation data.

7)Requires OHV plates to be designed to ensure the vehicle
identification number is the most prominent feature, and
requires the DMV to make recommendations to the Legislature,
by July 1, 2009, for improving OHV identification.

8)Eliminates limits on fees imposed for a daily or annual
parking permit for snow-related activities (Sno-Park program),
allowing DPR to set the permit fees at the levels it deems
appropriate.

9)Imposes a $50 fee to be paid to the DMV when an OHV's
identification plate is issued or biennially renewed and
requires resulting revenue to be deposited into the OHV Trust
Fund.








SB 742
Page 4


10)Increases various penalties imposed for OHV-related
violations.

COMMENTS

Rationale . This bill is needed to extend the state's OHV
program beyond its scheduled January 1, 2008 sunset. The author
contends the program should be extended another five years but
only in conjunction with substantial reforms to the
administration and focus of the program and a realignment of how
fiscal resources are spent for program support and for the
state's grant program for the development of new facilities and
restoration activities. While much debate has centered around
whether or not the appropriate amount of fuel tax revenue is
being transferred to the OHV program each year, this bill does
not immediately address the harsh reality that these transfers
are currently too high, choosing to continue transfers based on
a base year 2006-07 transfer.

The author contends the policymaking responsibilities of the OHV
Commission needs to be strengthened, while, at the same time,
eliminating its (and the division's) direct role in fiscal
matters. The author also believes a restructured OHV grants
program should support all the goals of the OHV program instead
of focusing on the development of new OHV facilities.

Analysis Prepared by : Steve Archibald / APPR. / (916)
319-2081
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

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Post by crash » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:13 am

Um, in TWO places it says the biennial fee will be $50.00?????

Does that mean our registration fees are going to DOUBLE??? :cry: :cry:

That would mean around $400.00 biennially for me to have the privelage of having my toys sit in my garage 350 days of the year!!! That's starting to get on the ridiculous side. That Arizona/Nevada second house is looking more attractive all the time.

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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:25 am

It's just and overview (I ques I'm just as confused as everyone) there's really not much there right now to look at, I will say our leaders have done a great job fighting a hard up hill Battle on this. I grip is why are we always fighting an uphill come form behind race, the other side always gets the poll position, the real same of this is it should have not started with Steinberg...TJ :roll:
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http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

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Post by tomjeeps2 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:47 am

Sept 9, 2007
The long road to take our OHV Program back from those wishing to end our sport has arrived.
Senator Steinberg's bill, SB 742 that began last February now needs Our Support. We need you to call your Assembly member now as this is scheduled to be heard this Monday, Sept 10th SB 742 as amended passed the Assembly appropriations committee by a vote of 15-0 and now heads to the Assembly floor. It will then go to the Senate floor for final passage as early as Tuesday.
So please contact your Assembly member and State Senator and urge their AYE vote today on SB 742!
Find both your elected officials here:
http://192.234.213.69/smapsearch/framepage.asp
SB 742 is a balanced bill for both OHV users as well as protecting the environment.
In the September issue of our Off Roader In Action newsletter, President Ed Waldheim explains our situation on page 4.
The complete bill can be found here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/...ed_asm_v94.pdf


Last amendments here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil ... _v93..html

As a CORVA member and supporter I'm just going to post this and run like hell, whatever you decide to do you better make it fast I understand this is happing as I type...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

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Post by tomjeeps2 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:22 am

CURRENT BILL STATUS


MEASURE : S.B. No. 742
AUTHOR(S) : Steinberg (Coauthor: Assembly Member Wolk).
TOPIC : Off-highway motor vehicle recreation.
HOUSE LOCATION : SEN
+LAST AMENDED DATE : 09/06/2007


TYPE OF BILL :
Active
Non-Urgency
Non-Appropriations
Majority Vote Required
State-Mandated Local Program
Fiscal
Non-Tax Levy

LAST HIST. ACT. DATE: 09/11/2007
LAST HIST. ACTION : In Senate. To unfinished business. Senate concurs in
Assembly amendments. (Ayes 30. Noes 5.) To
enrollment.
Right or wrong it's pretty much a done deal, what is certain is we'll all at least know where we stand...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

Tom Tammone

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Post by A Family of 4 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Last night, SB 742 came back from the Assembly after being passed 74 - 0 (Assembly voted on Monday at 6pm) to be voted on again by the Senate. Senate passed it with a 30 - 5 vote at 11:04pm last night.

Next stop, the Governor's desk where Arnold has to sign it by October 14th.

If you'd like to read the bill in it's final form, here's the link:

PDF http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil ... sm_v93.pdf
HTML http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil ... m_v93.html


For status and history of SB 742, visit http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postq ... =steinberg
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Post by A Family of 4 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm

Here's the official support and opposition of this bill:
SUPPORT : (Verified 9/10/07)

American Motorcyclist Association, District 36
American Motorcyclist Association, District 37 Dual Sport
American Motorcyclist Association, District 37 Off-Road
American Motorcyclist Association, National
American Sand Association
Blue Ribbon Coalition
California Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs
California Nevada Snowmobile Association
California Off Road Vehicle Association
California Wilderness Coalition
California Wilderness Society
City of Rancho Cordova
Friends of Oceano Dunes
Off Road Business Association
San Diego Off Road California
County of Santa Clara, Board of Supervisors

OPPOSITION : (Verified 9/10/07)

Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation
The Desert Protective Council, Inc.
High Desert Multiple OHV Use Coalition
Far West Motorcycle Club
Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility
Tuleyome
The above information is listed in the Analysis that went before the Senate last night, found HERE
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Post by Woodglue » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:06 pm

OPPOSITION : (Verified 9/10/07)

Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation
The Desert Protective Council, Inc.
High Desert Multiple OHV Use Coalition
Far West Motorcycle Club
Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility
Tuleyome
Just going from the Org Names.... WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:09 pm

(3) Members of the audience presenting public comments to the Commission are encouraged to provide a written
copy to the recording secretary. Due to the length of the agenda, comments from the public are limited
to two (2) minutes for individuals or four (4) minutes for organizations.
Just because I personally never heard of them till now don't mean they don't exist, but for recognition purposes at some point you have to ask what constitutes an organization, and who decides it's so?...TJ
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http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

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Post by Woodglue » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:36 am

AFof4, Thanks for posting this.
All grumbling aside, it's good to see some resolution to this. While we await Arnie's call on it, I've started looking it over to provide a brief summary of 'what it is' here.

I've not dug into too far yet, but so far I have this:

1) The act increased the OHMVR Commission from 7 members to 9. Previously 3 were to be assigned by the governor, now 5 will be. :|

2) Grant monies under The Act can be distributed to cities, counties, and districts, and cooperative agreements may be entered into with federal agencies or federally recognized Native American tribes. :-s

3) Per item 10 on page 4:
Current OHV registration rates are: $7+$8 = $15.00 per year.
New OHV registration rates will be: $7 + $33 = $40.00 per year.
#-o

4) From 5090.02 -3-C-1:
(1)Existing off-highway motor vehicle recreational areas,
facilities, and opportunities should be expanded and managed in
a manner consistent with this chapter, in particular to maintain
sustained long-term use.

(2) New off-highway motor vehicle recreational areas, facilities,
and opportunities should be provided and managed pursuant to
this chapter in a manner that will sustain long-term use.

=D>

That's all for now....
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:23 am

Well guess at the next meeting we'll all find out what we get to call home, for the next ten years or so, I once said if anyhing they need to pick a spot and stay there, apparently they did just that...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

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Post by Brewster » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:28 am

Woodglue wrote:I've not dug into too far yet, but so far I have this:

3) Per item 10 on page 4:
Current OHV registration rates are: $7+$8 = $15.00 per year.
New OHV registration rates will be: $7 + $33 = $40.00 per year.
That's all for now....
There is also $6. that goes to the CHP and $4. that goes to the counties. These were not changed and so they don't show up in the bill.

And, it's every TWO years.

Keep informed and active

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Post by crash » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:43 am

That's how I read it too. Hence this earlier post.
crash wrote:Um, in TWO places it says the biennial fee will be $50.00?????

Does that mean our registration fees are going to DOUBLE??? :cry: :cry:

That would mean around $400.00 biennially for me to have the privelage of having my toys sit in my garage 350 days of the year!!! That's starting to get on the ridiculous side. That Arizona/Nevada second house is looking more attractive all the time.

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Post by Woodglue » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:42 am

Brewster is correct, my bad...
The SB states:
a special fee of $33 that would be required to be paid at the time of payment of the service fee.
And the $7 service fee Time of Payment doesn't seem to have changed, so it would be every two years... not "per year" as I stated above.
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Post by Voice » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:27 am

3) Per item 10 on page 4:
Current OHV registration rates are: $7+$8 = $15.00 per year.
New OHV registration rates will be: $7 + $33 = $40.00 per year.
So, what's the status here? Are we supporting this or not?

I find it very difficult to believe that we would support this type of highway robbery considering their track record with abuse of our funds.

What is the deal?
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad in a letter to President Elect Barak Obama
"May God Almighty ... bless the leaders of societies with the courage to learn from the mistakes of predecessors,"
"I hope that you will be able to take fullest advantage of the opportunity to serve and leave behind a positive legacy."

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Post by Woodglue » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:07 pm

Voice, your quote there is from one of my earlier posts which [as others have pointed out] us incorrect.
I'm not saying that there aren't any rate-hikes, because there are rate-hikes, just my post has the wrong numbers.

As for where I sit on the rate hikes, with two green stickers and one red sticker in the garage, I'll take them with no problem.
Our present registration rates have been the same rates for atleast a decade. So, to have a hike now, reflecting this kind of increase, is still less than we were paying way back when [compared to the cost of living index].
So, yes, I can endorse it.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm

If he dose my big gripe is it prohibits left over money IE Restoration fund form getting moved to other categories, and calls for an unknown amount of "left over" restoration money to be be spent at the rate of $1.1 Million, over and above the 25% which is 5% too high as it is. Not Enough money for Education or Law Enforcement, local Forest LEO's don't like the idea of money automatically be turned over to the Region for distribution, I echo this concern the Forest region 5 also has given me heart burn lately.

Without naming Names Divisions conduct as a State body regarding left over funds was ultimately the deal breaker for me, they appear perfectly content with having this ever growing unspent pot of restoration money. Not speaking for CORVA or anyone but myself I no longer support this bill, other States need to know we're not the example to follow, unless there's another way to get this point across I say VETO it all together if LINE ITEM is out of the question...TJ :evil:


The above is my response to a question on another BBS, as to if ro if not the Governor as a LINE ITEM VETO option, I to not believe he dose but ether way this stands...TJ
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Post by Voice » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:28 pm

This fund has been nothing but a slush fund for the State of CA and for anti-access groups and it's "ok" for you if we are forced to give our enemies even more money just because of inflation?

I have no problem paying administrative fees for registration, but if you are going to try to sell me on some kind of "program" to support or expand off-roading in CA (as this program was originally designed) then I'm gonna have to say..

no thank you.

Supporting this bill is supporting anti-access groups.
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Post by Woodglue » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:18 pm

As I said voice, I can endorse it.
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Post by A Family of 4 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:25 pm

Brian, in the past, I would agree with you 200%.

As I read it from here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil ... rolled.pdf

I believe there's going to be some change.

If you need more explained, shoot me an email or PM.


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Post by tomjeeps2 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:30 pm

Sept 21, 2007

Info:

Congressman John Doolittle is meeting in Washington D.C. with senior members of the USDA, to discuss this USFS Route Inventory process. He understands the dilemma, and after meeting with OHV folks including the LAO, he called for this meeting to clarify some of the issues the OHV community is having with the roll out of the Route Inventory Program, and is using the El Dorado NF as an example of why the American Public is concerned, angry, frustrated and is calling for more answers as to why this process is one of closure dominated alternatives while the sport of OHV has grown 15 fold in recent years and over 600% in the last 30 years. While monetary reasons are often cited, Doolittle was frustrated as California OHV riders have contributed over $100 million dollars to the USFS for forests in California to SUPPLEMENT the USFS for OHV activity, and was the only state to pay $12 million to assist in the GPS/Trail Mapping process via its "Green Sticker" program.
Doolittle has contacted Congressman Dan Lungren and Wally Herger, as they represent OHV with forests in their jurisdictions. As the RI process rolls out throughout California with its 19 forests, other Congressional representatives will be brought up to speed by the public and those listed above.
Doolittle agreed that the public was not, and is not, well served by the short Public Comment periods on such complicated documents............
http://www.nohvcc.org/IMAGES/CARDW.doc

This really ticked me off, from CORVA's web site which has already got some asking why do they want this bill, my guess is the Governor is waiting so Daphne can announce it at this weekends N.O.H.V.C.C. conference. Like Sailaway said with all the brass bands and how the world needs to follow their lead, well as someone ready to blow this State my message to you Daphne is keep your trash to yourself, we don't want anything like your stinking program on our State...TJ
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Post by A Family of 4 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:49 pm

Tom,

I'm not sure where you are going with this? Do you have fact or is this speculation?

I had another impression from you this past weekend at the Expo.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:48 am

Vicky I just want us to keep this in perspective, SB742 is a marked improvement for THIS STATE and this program, yes I have many creative ways to make this thing work. Like I told you I don't want to hear Phil and Daphne out bragging about how great this is, and how we're now moving forward as the great example for the Nation to follow, when it's more like we're going from worse to 2nd to last. This program was intended to be a supplement, not a headache to be worked around with a great amount of effort, looking at the route designation process and what this program contributed out of operations money, one just has to look at the big picture and consider overall cause and effect.

You all worked hard and I thank you for your efforts, but looking at the Nation as a whole let's take it for what it is, we did the best we could for an OHV program to be allowed to operate in a BLUE STATE, at great accomplishment yes but in the end that's all it is...TJ :roll:
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Post by A Family of 4 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:21 am

I'm pretty sure that you won't see horn tooting from the Organizations or from Division. This proposed legislation is fair and honest from what it was to what it could have been, but by no means the best thing since sliced bread. And route designation is another whole can of worms.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:36 am

One day, in the early fall in Wyoming, a baby bird was in it's nest along with it's siblings while the parents were out hunting food.

This baby bird decided he could fly, so he got up on the edge of the nest and jumped off, flapping his wings furiously.

He couldn't fly. He just sorta went out at a 45 degree angle and landed in the cow pasture. He was unhurt, but it was getting cold.

He started running around, when he came up behind a cow that was grazing in the pasture. The cow was doing "cow stuff" like eating and pooping vast amounts.

The little bird ran into a pile of the poop and it was warm and soft, so he decided to stay there and just call for his parents with little bird peeps.

A fox heard him peeping and came to investigate.

The fox patiently cleaned the cow poop off the little bird and then ate him.

The moral of this story......

Those that dump crap on you are not necessarily your enemies,

Those that take crap off you are not necessarily your friends.
This whole mess kind of reminds me of this old joke, just because I criticize don't mean I don't mean well, and you can't trust anyone you think they mean well and they don't. We both agree the Governor don't have to sign the bill and I fell he shouldn't, and that old joke I remember has a little different also there was another punch line which I feel is very appropriate, it goes something like this:

And last but not least, if you must resort to staying in cow poop to feel warm and happy KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT, let's just be quiet about SB742...TJ

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(The Thread this whole thing started on, just to fill in the blanks)
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/ind ... try2474840
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Post by Woodglue » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:35 am

tomjeeps2 wrote:if you must resort to staying in cow poop to feel warm and happy KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT,
:shock: ok.

Tom, I think I saw your jeep on the freeway yesterday at like 4:15p.
EB91 transition to SB15?
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:38 am

Was not me, guess I better fine another spot to hide the key me thinks :wink:
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Post by Voice » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:37 pm

I find it hard to believe that after decades of having our own money used against us and having our own program used to screw us that all of a sudden it's all going to be OK because some burocrat said that things were going to change.

Bottom line is that this program has been a big pile of crap from the very beginning (nice analagies by the way) and I have absolutely no reason to believe that it will be any different in the future, therefore I aboslutely refuse to support giving ANY MORE ------ MONEY TO THESE CRIMINALS!!!
and that's the long and short of it. If you, for some reason think that all will be well because some burocrat has given you some kind of assurance then you are a fool and I'm tired of fools spending MY money.
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Post by Woodglue » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:45 pm

Voice wrote: I aboslutely refuse to support giving ANY MORE ------ MONEY TO THESE CRIMINALS!!!
To me, this means that you will no longer be registering your vehicles.
No more plates, red stickers, green stickers, reg tags.

Am I correct?
Voice wrote:If you, <Snip!> then you are a fool
I don't know who you are directing this comment at Voice, but it's a little too personal.
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Post by Voice » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 pm

No, this is personal. Anyone, particularly an orginization that claims to represent me and my off-roading interests who supports, promotes, advocates or otherwise encourages the state to siphon off more of MY money for the pipe dream of bigger, better, more off-roading opportunities knowing full well the history of such things in this state (which are quite nicely documented here in this very forum) has neither my support nor my respect.

This was our golden opportunity to finally rid ourselves of this program which has been used against us and our cause for decades and instead I find that we are to get more of the same. And to make matters worse it seems that some, if not many of us, people who should know better, are perfectly willing to sell us out for empty promises.

The state of California can give a rats anus about us and our sport.
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Post by A Family of 4 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:59 pm

First off, before I say anything else, this proposed legislation hasn't even been signed by the Govenor as of yet, he has until Sunday, October 14th to sign or veto. If there's no signature, it becomes law anyway.

Next, this program wasn't going anywhere....PERIOD. The legislation was going to go through with or without any of the off-road community's input. Sure we can all sit around and say "Let the **** thing sunset" but the fact is....there was no way in hell that it was going to happen, those in Sacramento wouldn't have let it happen.

So with that being said, Brian or anyone else, what would you rather have?

A. New legislation that would have increased our green sticker fees to a minimum of $75. As well as the elimination of legally riding any red stickered bike on public lands within the state boundries on top of the BS we already deal with currently. (ie, the Commission, no money to the ground, etc)

B. Hmmm, there aren't any other other options.

And the reason why there aren't any other options is because we had/have/and will continue to have NONE until we change the political make-up (either by a Republican majority or more moderate Dems in office) in Sacramento. Why? because the Democrats have the majority. Both the Committees that legislation would come from for any type of rules/regs for off-roaders are chaired by very liberal Democrats, with each Committee having a Democrat majority. If a Republican representative had written the legislation as to how WE want it, it would never make it out of Committee....PERIOD. Let's for a second pretend that something did make it out of Committee and hit the Senate and Assembly floor, the Democrats have the majority! There's not enough off-road friendly Democrats in Sacramento to get anything that is all in our favor...and with the liberals in this state, I doubt we'll ever have an Off-Road program that isn't environmentally sensitive.

I'm glad that 12 of the major organizations were in on the negotiations. I couldn't have imagined having to live with what could have been.....and with the current program going the way it was with the Commission, I don't even want to think about where we'd be in another 5 years...if we'd even have much left statewide.

Now, do you have to like it....hell no! Do I like it?? HELL NO but considering the options right now, with what is in Sacramento, I'll take it, I have no choice. And you better believe that over the next 10 years I'm going to get as involved as I can to make a flippin' difference because I believe that we're heading in the right direction for the very first time....it might be baby steps but I'll take any progress forward then what we've had in the past. It's time for the off-roading community to wake up and make a difference because it's going to take more than a few months or a year to gather the power to do so.

So regardless to being a fool or not, this is the way our state is made-up right now. Until change happens by the people who live here, it's going to continue this way. California is a liberal state. Maybe it's time to move to a conservative state like Idaho or Wyoming.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:21 am

Yes it's a question of what we have to give up to have an OHV program in a BLUE STATE, past performance will say NOT and I don't have enough information to say if sb742 will change that. Vicky rather than getting tangled in the fray why don't you explain, what is specifically in sb742 that will make this any better...TJ
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Post by Woodglue » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:41 am

Voice built a fray and calls AFo4 into the mess [ref the earlier FOOL comment], places her on the defensive and offers no alteratives, rather just gripes about what it is.

How involved was Voice in the negotiations of SB-742? Was Voice on one of the 12 orgs that compossed this committee?
No, then why make your comments after the fact? It's a little late now.

AFo4, your motivation is amazing, especilly while fighting the like of our internal adversaries on bbs's like this, you still project your own furthered invovlement to turn the state around [talk about a big bite to chew].
A lesson for us all.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:10 am

Non involvement may not be voluntary, a total lack of usable information is my big gripe, such as just how much if anything is in this what I call the "black donut in the sky" left over restoration account...TJ
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Post by Voice » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:29 pm

Yep, this is ALL my fault because I said that anyone who believed a single word from this state was a fool.

I wonder if you can get that written next to the ASA logo on the green sticker paperwork...

"This rate hike brought to you by the ASA... and it's all Voice's fault"!
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Post by Woodglue » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:48 pm

Voice wrote:"This rate hike brought to you by the ASA... and it's all Voice's fault"!
Man Voice, where do you come up with this stuff!?
Read! 12 Orgs and who knows how many anti-ohv folks! So, how do you figure it's "brought to you by the ASA"? Because it's discussed on an ASA BBS? It's also discussed on Glamis Dunes.com, dunesafe, below10k, etc.
Why don't you answer any questions that are asked of you?
:arrow: Why make your comments after the fact?
:arrow: How involved was Voice in the negotiations of SB-742?
:arrow: To me, this means that you will no longer be registering your vehicles. No more plates, red stickers, green stickers, reg tags. Am I correct?
Your comments could probably be appreciated better if they came to light, like a year ago when this thing was in negotiations. But instead, it seems you'd rather steer the train from the caboose.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:37 pm

Again the question is to we except it or not, if you yeah veto then your just going to have to hope the Governor has something better up his sleeve, or as I heard on another BBS do we take this or what's behind door Number two. Personally tell some one gives me reason to believe things will be better, I'll take door number two, reasoning being both sides at the table just figured out how to just go on as normal, to me that's not expectable. As far as what you should do try to see though the fog and do what you feel is right, I decide for myself and you should do the same...TJ
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:03 pm

Put another way Widell at least had a Deputy Directors link on the States WEB site, never seen Greene state a position on anything, OK I say if she wants our support get out there and state your case. Answer some stinking question like they did with the grants, you know like how will this change things.

How will this help get some of the money set aside for the Riverside SVRA, used do do other things like the needed CEQA work for truckhaven.

How does Division intend to deal with NON profits applying for everything but law enforcement, deal with things like insuring NEPA compliance for the work they do.

How much money is in this so called "left over restoration account" what do the indent to do with the projected $2.5+ Million that will again be left under restoration this grant cycle.

On and On it goes you take it from there....


Bottom line is If Greene wants to keep her $106K a year job get out there and explain it to all of us, not just her chosen few she teleconferences with all the time. Personally I'm not letting them get away with leaving us in an information vacuum, saying well it's just not available yet so your just going to have to trust us, you of course are free to do as you wish...TJ
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:37 am

Received some PM's about the legal aspects of SB742, some references made as to why some of my main concerns may be moot, Divisions conduct at the last meeting has caused me to decide it don't matter. I've throwing points of law at them for over a year now, those at the last meeting saw it they just decide it don't matter, under the current Deputy Director I simply can not support this bill...TJ

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Post by A Family of 4 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:11 pm

The call came in about an hour, the Governor signed SB 742.

Look for more information over the next couple of days.

This new legislation will be effective January 1, 2008.
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:57 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good bad or indifferent, it's done..TJ

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/7692/
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:38 pm

http://www.calwild.org/

http://www.dpcinc.org/

http://www.farwestmoto.com/

http://www.peer.org/

http://www.sierraconservation.org/

http://www.tuleyome.org/

High Desert Multiple OHV Use Coalition, this one I could not find a web site for anyone know where it is???

Just making a Talley of the registered opposition...TJ
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Post by A Family of 4 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm

fyi, California Wilderness Coalition is supportive.

Tom, remember Brent's statement at the Commission meeting?
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:31 pm

Yeah it was kind of bazaar I remember, just trying to make some sense how they register opposition, and if some of these groups even exsist...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

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Post by Brewster » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:12 am

California Wilderness Coalition didn't register opposition, they were in support in the final senate analysis.

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tomjeeps2
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Post by tomjeeps2 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:59 am

Basically they told the Commission how sorry they were to sell them down the river, talked about just how much they love the Commission IE Spitler, gees Brew don't you just wonder what changed their minds at the last second...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

Tom Tammone

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