U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

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U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Winston Cup »


News
Release

Department of the Interior
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
Carlsbad Fish and Wildlife Office
6010 Hidden Valley Road
Carlsbad, California 92011
Phone: 760/4319440
Fax: 760/4319624
http://carlsbad.fws.gov
(SC) 05143
Contact: Jane Hendron ­
760/4319440
ext. 205

For Release: November 30, 2005
U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE TAKES SECOND LOOK
AT STATUS OF PEIRSONS MILKVETCH

New Petition to Remove Plant from Endangered Species List Provides Substantial Information

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced today that a new petition to remove the threatened
Peirson’s milk vetch (Astragalus magdalenae var. peirsonii) from its current listing under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) provides substantial information indicating such action may be warranted.
The Service will now initiate a 12 month status review of Peirsons milk vetch, a desert plant found only in portions of the Algodones Dunes in Imperial County, California, to determine whether the plant should
be proposed for delisting. In 2001, the Service was initially petitioned by the American Sand Association, the OffRoad Business Association, and the San Diego OffRoad Coalition to delist the plant. Based on the Service’s finding that the petition contained substantial information, a complete review of the plant’s status was undertaken. In 2004, the Service published its finding that the plant still warranted protection under the ESA.

The most recent delisting petition was submitted to the Service on July 30, 2005, by the American Sand Association, the OffRoad Business Association, and the American Motorcycle Association – District 37.
The 2005 petition asserts that based on four years of additional data collection, Peirson’s milkvetch is more abundant than was reported in the 2001 petition and that the plant’s population and reproductive
capacity are stable and strong enough to warrant delisting. Todays finding does not affect other ongoing activities related to the protection and management of the Peirsons milkvetch, nor does it constitute a decision to delist the plant. Peirsons milkvetch,
a member of the pea family, grows from 8 to 27 inches tall and has pale purple flowers. The plant is found only in portions of the Algodones Dunes, a sand dune formation that is about 40 miles long, running northwest to southeast, and approximately 5-8 miles wide. Within the dunes, the plant is found in scattered occurrences based on the slope of the dunes, patterns of annual rainfall, and other habitat factors. The Service listed Peirsons milkvetch as a threatened species due to habitat
degradation, impacts associated with offroad vehicles, and the inadequacy of regulatory mechanisms to conserve the plant.
The Algodones Dunes is managed by the Bureau of Land Management and includes some of the most heavily used offroad vehicle recreation areas in the United States. A portion of the area occupied by the milkvetch is wilderness, where no vehicle use is allowed.

Comments and information regarding the status of the plant will be accepted until January 30, 2006, and should be submitted in writing to the Field Supervisor, Carlsbad Fish and Wildlife Office, 6010 Hidden
Valley Road, Carlsbad, CA 92011. Comments may also be submitted by facsimile to 7604319618, or be electronic mail to FW1PMV@fws.gov.



U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the principal Federal agency responsible for conserving, protecting and enhancing fish, wildlife and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people. The Service manages the 95 million acre National Wildlife Refuge System, which encompasses 545 national wildlife refuges, thousands of small wetlands and other special management areas. It also operates 69 national fish hatcheries, 64 Fish and Wildlife Management offices and 81 ecological services field stations. The agency enforces federal wildlife laws, administers the Endangered Species Act, manages migratory bird populations, restores nationally significant fisheries, conserves and restores wildlife habitat such as wetlands, and helps foreign and Native American tribal governments with their conservation efforts. It also oversees the Federal Assistance program, which distributes hundreds of
millions of dollars in excise taxes on fishing and hunting equipment to state fish and wildlife agencies.
­
FWS ­
For more information about the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, visit our home page at http://www.fws.gov
Click here for the USFWS Press Release
Last edited by Winston Cup on Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Sand Commander »

That's what I'm talking about!!!!

Congratulations ASA!!!

I am amazed at how easy it is to get something listed, but it takes years to get it delisted!
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Post by OBSESSED »

Sand Commander wrote:That's what I'm talking about!!!!

Congratulations ASA!!!

I am amazed at how easy it is to get something listed, but it takes years to get it delisted!
EXACTLY!
grows from 8 to 27 inches tall and has pale purple flowers. The plant is found only in portions of the Algodones Dunes
Well this also needs to be updated, it is right out of the hand book...

I found them over fourty-eight inches tall this past year. :? :shock:

Heck, I got a 24 inch one in my back yard! :lol:


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Post by Winston Cup »

Sand Commander wrote:That's what I'm talking about!!!!

Congratulations ASA!!!

I am amazed at how easy it is to get something listed, but it takes years to get it delisted!
Yes interesting isn't it. Imagine if they applied the same criteria to listing a species as they do to delisting one.
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Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

This is a small victory but an important one. Judges have been known to stall. Perhaps ours is too pending the decision from FWS on the PMV. Why?

Contrary to some opinions, but in line with our attorney's opinion, delisting the PMV paves the way for the temporary closures to come down. Here's how.

Keep in mind that CBD is suing on 3 fronts - all based upon the PMV being a listed species: take that away and we knock the legs out from under all 3 cases. If the PMV is delisted, their cases, and any appeals in progress (ours or theirs - one way or the other) go out the window and become moot. This would save the judge from having to make a controversial decision.

If PMV is delisted, the BO is no longer required and the CBD suit on that front, and possible appeals on the BO, go away. (Possibly a BO would be needed only where there is Desert Tortoise habitat but that is only on the east side of the dunes.) Therefore, that would take the FWS out of the equation for the main section of the dunes - no BO.

No more buy-offs/compromises from BLM to obtain a no jeopardy BO. The AMA would most likely remain in place whether there is a listed species in it or not. However, it would be more difficult to defend its restrictions based upon the fact that there are only "species of concern" in the area and no actual listed species present. Being "adaptive", it would be easier to fight for lesser restrictions of those acres. It was made a limited use area when the Wilderness North of 78 deal was made back in 1994. That was part of the trade off along with the closures of the other Sand areas: Kelso and Eureka.

CBD would no longer have a claim that Critical Habitat (CH) for the PMV is inadequate since you can't have CH for non-listed species. You could end up with an ACEC though, since FWS will monitor PMV for a few years to validate their decision to delist the PMV.

CBD would no longer have a claim that RAMP did not follow NEPA (no action alternative should have included present closures) since those closures were set in place due to a lawsuit settlement that claimed the PMV needed protection and wasn't getting it under the ESA. No listed species = a faulty claim that the closures should have been put in place...and should have NEVER been listed...

Now, with all that in mind, remember that BLM is NOT going forward with any part of the RAMP that would reopen any closures until the judge makes her ruling. This was agreed to by BLM and CBD in lieu of a restraining order prohibiting BLM from moving forward.

If the court proceedings become moot, the need for a ruling is moot, the BLM can then proceed with implementing the RAMP that calls for all but the AMA to be restored to unrestricted access.
Last edited by Vincent J Brunasso on Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Rick Bowen »

Whay didn't anyone catch this error:
a sand dune formation that is about 40 miles long, running northwest to southeast, and approximately 58 miles wide
58 miles wide... guess there is more to the dunes than I thought.

Should be 5.8 miles wide (at it's widest point?)?

Anyway, atleast another 12 months (probably longer) for this to get any traction.
Milkvetch.... It's not just for breakfast anymore.

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Post by djw »

Anyway, atleast another 12 months (probably longer) for this to get any traction.
Hopefully, this news is like airing down the tires instead of pulling out the shovel and high lift. 8)
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Post by desertsteve »

Good news !! and thanks for the explenation Vince !.

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Post by Barley101 »

:P

I can't wait for the main closures to be lifted.. I'm fairly new to the dunes.. only my second season.. and have heard so much about "The Wall".. I wanna get out and see that bad momma!
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Post by RobC »

Good News :!: :!:
And Yes, thank you for the explanation Vince.
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Post by LoBuck »

Rick Bowen wrote:Whay didn't anyone catch this error:
a sand dune formation that is about 40 miles long, running northwest to southeast, and approximately 58 miles wide
58 miles wide... guess there is more to the dunes than I thought.

Should be 5.8 miles wide (at it's widest point?)?
Looks like the some of the text didn't copy over correctly from the Press Release PDF. It is supposed read 5 - 8 miles wide.

The complete Press Release is in the documents section on www.isdratrt.org.

Here is a direct link to the USFWS Press Release.
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Post by Winston Cup »

LoBuck wrote:
Rick Bowen wrote:Whay didn't anyone catch this error:
a sand dune formation that is about 40 miles long, running northwest to southeast, and approximately 58 miles wide
58 miles wide... guess there is more to the dunes than I thought.

Should be 5.8 miles wide (at it's widest point?)?
Looks like the some of the text didn't copy over correctly from the Press Release PDF. It is supposed read 5 - 8 miles wide.

The complete Press Release is in the documents section on www.isdratrt.org.

Here is a direct link to the USFWS Press Release.
Thanks, I just fixed it. For some reason pdf's copy over wierd sometimes. Thought I caught all the querky stuff that normaly transfers over, sorry.
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Post by KingGlamis »

Great news for sure. But another 12 months minimum? Seems like an eternity. :shock:

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Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

FYI: The DOJ attorney went on file today asking when Judge Illston can be expected to rule.

The plot thickens...
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Post by SANDUNERS »

EXCELLENT!!! :P
Vincent J Brunasso wrote:Now, with all that in mind, remember that BLM is NOT going forward with any part of the RAMP that would reopen any closures until the judge makes her ruling. This was agreed to by BLM and CBD in lieu of a restraining order prohibiting BLM from moving forward.
The BLM shouldn't do ANY parts of the RAMP until the judge makes her ruling...

Especially the stupid trash dumpsters and the vendor locations. :x
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Post by Winston Cup »

Let me toss this out there.

Back when this all started I did some research into what's been delisted, recovered etc. I found at that time that pratically nothing was listed as recovered and the few that were delisted were mostly due to "New Data Found" or "Taxonomic Revision" which means they found out the listed species was actually the same species as another species of which there was an abundance of or to put it simply, "same duck, just different color feathers".

But in the last couple years or so as the level of scrutiny or critique over the actuall effectiveness of the endangered species act listings has increased, I notice that many of those same delisted species had suddenly been recategorized as "Recovered" instead of "New Data" or Taxonomic Revision" etc. There were even some articles where some people noticed that the original terms for delisting were being changed and manipulated in an attempt to show that the ESA is a success. Of course that didn't make headline news, but it did show on the radar.

So my question is, when we eventually are successful in getting the PMV delisted, what will the official record say as the reason for delisting? "New Data Found" as it should say, or will it say "Recovered"?
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Post by travis624 »

In 2001, the Service was initially petitioned by the American Sand Association, the OffRoad Business Association, and the San Diego OffRoad Coalition to delist the plant. Based on the Service’s finding that the petition contained substantial information, a complete review of the plant’s status was undertaken. In 2004, the Service published its finding that the plant still warranted protection under the ESA.
Petitioned in 2001 and in 2004 published its finding, Thats three years not 12 months, I hope they move faster this time around....

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Post by desertsteve »

HMMMM ! the DOJ comes into play now,,,,, Im like'n the sound of that !!!. It looks like the Judge will have some heavy players watching !!, and not just us Duners !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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Post by jhitesma »

desertsteve wrote:HMMMM ! the DOJ comes into play now,,,,, Im like'n the sound of that !!!. It looks like the Judge will have some heavy players watching !!, and not just us Duners !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Don't bet on it. The DOJ has been involved in the case since day one. And their lawyer was the most clueless person in the courtroom for the last hearing :(

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Post by desertsteve »

Maybe a conspiracy ??? :shock: .

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Post by Winston Cup »

Winston Cup wrote:Let me toss this out there.

Back when this all started I did some research into what's been delisted, recovered etc. I found at that time that pratically nothing was listed as recovered and the few that were delisted were mostly due to "New Data Found" or "Taxonomic Revision" which means they found out the listed species was actually the same species as another species of which there was an abundance of or to put it simply, "same duck, just different color feathers".

But in the last couple years or so as the level of scrutiny or critique over the actuall effectiveness of the endangered species act listings has increased, I notice that many of those same delisted species had suddenly been recategorized as "Recovered" instead of "New Data" or Taxonomic Revision" etc. There were even some articles where some people noticed that the original terms for delisting were being changed and manipulated in an attempt to show that the ESA is a success. Of course that didn't make headline news, but it did show on the radar.

So my question is, when we eventually are successful in getting the PMV delisted, what will the official record say as the reason for delisting? "New Data Found" as it should say, or will it say "Recovered"?
Here's a link to the DOI site with the list I looked at a few years back and I'm telling you, the reasons for delisting have been changed on some of these recently. I gotta see if I posted the original or saved a copy of it somewhere because when I looked at it back then, there were only like three, maybe four listed as recovered, the rest were "Enorneous Data", "New Data", "Taxonomic" etc. Now some of those same ones are showing "Recovered" as the reason for delisting.

Delisted Species and Why
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Post by jhitesma »

Tried archive.org's wayback machine but convienantly the "site owner has blocked access to the wayback machine with their robots.txt file"

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Post by Winston Cup »

Winston Cup wrote:
Winston Cup wrote:Let me toss this out there.

Back when this all started I did some research into what's been delisted, recovered etc. I found at that time that pratically nothing was listed as recovered and the few that were delisted were mostly due to "New Data Found" or "Taxonomic Revision" which means they found out the listed species was actually the same species as another species of which there was an abundance of or to put it simply, "same duck, just different color feathers".

But in the last couple years or so as the level of scrutiny or critique over the actuall effectiveness of the endangered species act listings has increased, I notice that many of those same delisted species had suddenly been recategorized as "Recovered" instead of "New Data" or Taxonomic Revision" etc. There were even some articles where some people noticed that the original terms for delisting were being changed and manipulated in an attempt to show that the ESA is a success. Of course that didn't make headline news, but it did show on the radar.

So my question is, when we eventually are successful in getting the PMV delisted, what will the official record say as the reason for delisting? "New Data Found" as it should say, or will it say "Recovered"?
Here's a link to the DOI site with the list I looked at a few years back and I'm telling you, the reasons for delisting have been changed on some of these recently. I gotta see if I posted the original or saved a copy of it somewhere because when I looked at it back then, there were only like three, maybe four listed as recovered, the rest were "Enorneous Data", "New Data", "Taxonomic" etc. Now some of those same ones are showing "Recovered" as the reason for delisting.

Delisted Species and Why
I ran across this, and it does coincide with what I remember but I'm still trying to find the actual dated list a few years back from the DOI's site so I can compare apples to apples.

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Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

Great news for sure. But another 12 months minimum?
NO - that is some more of the wrong information that is floating around out there.

It is12 months total from the time FWS receives the delisting petition. We're looking at July 30, 2006 as a final deadline. Because they are running behind it is likely that it will go beyond that.

One very important thing to observe here is that we did not have to sue for the 90-day this time, but CBD, on the other hand, had to for the 17 other species the want listed.

I think this has got their panties in a pretty big knot - that is why they are doing their best to give us as much bad press as possible. However, they aren't getting any mileage out of it – everyone in the government, from local to federal, has their number at this point and sees them for the hypocrites they are. It bothered me for a while, but now I see it as a move based in desperation and one designed to save face with their backers and volunteers.

They aren’t in the environmental business that believes in multiple use, they are in the lawsuit business to close off land - period. Their string of past victories has now become their worst enemy - step on enough toes and folks are going to push back.
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Post by FunRunner »

So, maybe in my lifetime? :?

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Post by FunRunner »

Vincent J. Brunasso
everyone in the government, from local to federal, has their number at this point and sees them for the hypocrites they are.
I wish that would get us somewhere. It's like the liberals of the Dem Party such as Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer,Nancy Pulosi and the rest of the far left. Everybody knows what they're all about, but it doesn't seem to matter. Liberals say the counterpoint of the right is just as bad, and have their listeners convinced to go with what they want.
Like Vince, I think we have gotten a lot of mileage out of CBD's continuing bogus barrage; however, there are a multitude of stumbling blocks in place, and always seems like we're facing 3rd down and 5 yards.
They're just waiting for us to fumble, or throw an errant pass, they can pick off and take the offensive. We've just got to keep grinding out the yardage and using our blockers; calling the right plays for the situation.
We can win; we need to hang tough. 8)

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Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

We can win; we need to hang tough.
That's it in a nutshell. We can't let their bogus press releases and their well-timed suits make us quit. It is a mind game they play as any other. We shouldn't let their game disrupt ours our let it demoralize us.
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Post by Woodglue »

Once upon a time herein, FunRunner wrote:We can win; we need to hang tough. 8)
And I pleased to publicize that WE ARE!

EcoLogic files formal Notice Of Intent to Sue:
[Click the thumbnails for images that are a little easier to read]

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Re: Re:

Post by ddjthomas »

Woodglue wrote:
Once upon a time herein, FunRunner wrote:We can win; we need to hang tough. 8)
And I pleased to publicize that WE ARE!

EcoLogic files formal Notice Of Intent to Sue:
[Click the thumbnails for images that are a little easier to read]

Image
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Wood,

I get a security violation when I click on your thumbnails.
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Re: Re:

Post by Vincent J Brunasso »

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Woodglue »

:oops:
Thanks Vince.
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Re: Re:

Post by ddjthomas »

Vincent J Brunasso wrote:Just follow this link
http://files.americansandassociation.or ... 040808.pdf
THIS IS TOTALLY AWESOME :!: :!: :!:

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

THANK YOU ASA =D> =D> =D>
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

This is good news, and THE ASA ROCKS!!! =D> =D> =D>

However, I'm not counting any chickens yet....... [-X [-o<

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by gelwell »

Well this is good news however I too am caustiously optimistic like Crash. I see this as legal wrangling and posturing. But the point to FWS should be well taken in the sense their report is way overdue. But my BS alarm is going off in that if this does get delisted the CBD will pick another plant and/or animal to keep the closures going to ad infinitum.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by BHenry »

Gene,
The good news is unless the CBD can get another species listed, and closures in place prior to the PMV being delisted, the "Temporary" closures will come down. There will continue to be monitoring of the PMV, and we'll have to see what the new RAMP will hold; but I am also cautiously optimistic.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

And that's the real problem, isn't it? Species are easily listed because the government doesn't have the resources to spend to make the correct determination because the eco-capitalists take most of it with frivolous suits. It's a vicious cycle that the ecofreaks know how to play well. We all know that CBD, PEER, etc have not been just sitting on the sidelines licking their wounds. They WILL attempt to list more species and they WILL do whatever they can to keep our public lands closed to us. Hence the need, I feel, to look at some other end game alternatives...........Like getting the ISDRA at least prescribed as an OHV recreation area. :wink:

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Rekd »

crash wrote:And that's the real problem, isn't it? Species are easily listed because the government doesn't have the resources to spend to make the correct determination because the eco-capitalists take most of it with frivolous suits. It's a vicious cycle that the ecofreaks know how to play well. We all know that CBD, PEER, etc have not been just sitting on the sidelines licking their wounds. They WILL attempt to list more species and they WILL do whatever they can to keep our public lands closed to us. Hence the need, I feel, to look at some other end game alternatives...........Like getting the ISDRA at least prescribed as an OHV recreation area. :wink:
crash is right. It's too easy to add a species to the list. Basically all they have to do is say "hey, this turd-covered-lint-stick plant is dying, you need to close the area" and it's closed, no questions asked.

Perhaps there's a way we can use this to our advantage. We know they're going to do it, we just don't know what the details will be.

As for the ISDRA as an OHV area, would the fact that there are areas closed for "protection" make it harder to get it even considered as an OHV area?
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by f-BOB »

The new "critical habitat" designations may well end up as closed areas when all is said and done (that's my understanding at least), but the good news there is that the CH areas include less acreage than the current temp. closures (case in point the "Gekko Management Area" (closed area east of Gekko CG) is not part of the CH designation for PMV and should the new RAMP be approved with it's attached CH designations this temp closure would go away.

Turning ISDRA into a federal OHV Park may not necessarily get the entire place opened, nor would it prevent the eco nazis from filing suit to get other species listed and close additional areas. They've been after parts of Ocotillo Wells SVRA for years, and even tho it's not a federal park, the OHV park designation has done nothing to stop them from trying to get areas closed.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

Do you know for a fact that the SVRA designation has had NO effect? I mean it's pretty hard to tell what some government people are thinking. Is it not possible that when "the powers that be" look at an area the eco-freaks are attacking, a little more weight may be given to our side if the area has already been designated for OHV use? I mean think about it from their view. If a group comes in and says "Hey, this public land is being destroyed and it is due to all these crazy OHV people" don't you think it might cross someones mind if he/she finds out that it is a DESIGNATED OHV area that maybe it has been looked at already and THIS IS THE PLACE FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES? I think that that would go through the powers that be's minds when making a decision on whether to shut an area down or not, or to even consider a groups whinings.

Obviously we, as a group, have little or no control over what another group of people are going to do. They can file anything they want. We CAN make things tougher though. I'm trying to explore ways to do that. :wink:

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by d_sheffs »

crash is right. It's too easy to add a species to the list. Basically all they have to do is say "hey, this turd-covered-lint-stick plant is dying, you need to close the area" and it's closed, no questions asked.

Perhaps there's a way we can use this to our advantage. We know they're going to do it, we just don't know what the details will be
and i have given this a lot of though too. there used to be such a thing as "frivolous lawsuits". since the eco-jerks use the same tactic over and over again (ie claim its endangered and sue-sue-sue) at what point does our govt/court system say ENOUGH and actually look at it from the big picture perspective?

I think it could even be shown that the eco's are using bullying/extorsion tactics. If it could be shown that the sierra club or CBD or whoever uses it position to get contributions and in turn be left alone (not sued) than doesn't that make it a form of extorsion? could it be said that a govt aganecy could even be conspiring with the CBD when they are 2.5 years past due on an opinion on a de-listing petittion?
lucky for the eco-jerks I am not a lawyer. because if I was, I would make it my hobby to ty them up in court with every bogus claim that i could come up with. seriously aren't there any lawyer/duners out there up for a little challenge?

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

D....It gets even better than what you stated there. In most of the filings made by the eco-capitalists there is a little zinger at the end that uses a law designed to benefit the general population. The eco-capitalists exploit this law to the fullest. The law allows individuals/groups who file something that is determined to be "in the interest of the general public" to request that all their attornies fees be paid for by the government. So not only do they collect donations from idiots who think they are "saving the planet" that allows them to get started, but then they charge The People to essentially "lock" The People out of their own lands. :evil: All the while doing it under a guise of a non-profit organization, paying no taxes, and passing ALL the money on to the lawyers that work for the organization. :? :cry:

Do you understand now why I call them ECO-CAPITALISTS??!! :sick:

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Rekd »

Well I'm thinking we could be considered the "general public".

Why aren't we exploiting the same circumstances? :?: :?: :?:
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

Because we don't have sheep all accross the globe that say "save the OHV" when a micorphone is shoved in their face. They have gotten people to believe, and I must say I believe the intent is/was there at some time in the actual legislation, that the ESA is about conserving the planets plant and animal diversity.

Remember this, and I can't recall who said it:

The road to racketeering.
1) Good idea.
2) Idea becomes a movement.
3) Movement becomes a business.
4) Business degenerates into a racket.

I believe the "eco-movement" has developed into stages 3 or 4 to a very large part.

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by gelwell »

The new "critical habitat" designations may well end up as closed areas when all is said and done (that's my understanding at least), but the good news there is that the CH areas include less acreage than the current temp. closures (case in point the "Gekko Management Area" (closed area east of Gekko CG) is not part of the CH designation for PMV
It is my understanding that the CH is a result of the overall lawsuit. If the PMV gets delisted it makes the CH moot.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Woodglue »

gelwell wrote:
The new "critical habitat" designations may well end up as closed areas when all is said and done (that's my understanding at least), but the good news there is that the CH areas include less acreage than the current temp. closures (case in point the "Gekko Management Area" (closed area east of Gekko CG) is not part of the CH designation for PMV
It is my understanding that the CH is a result of the overall lawsuit. If the PMV gets delisted it makes the CH moot.
That is my understanding as well Gene, as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it's 100% accurate!

Something else, the ASA filed a Notice of Intent. If we do sue them, we will win because the decision is overdue. So, regardless of the decision, we will win and our attorney fees will be paid by the government under the rules of the 1973 Endangered Species Act.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

Woodglue wrote: ....our attorney fees will be paid by the government under the rules of the 1973 Endangered Species Act.



=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

That's fantastic!! I didn't know for sure how much room for interpretation the law left, as far as attornies fees go, up to the judge, but that's great to hear that the ASA is at least pursuing the repayment of these fees. :D :D =D> =D> :D :D

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Woodglue »

Bad news... ASA's Delisting Petition has been denied by the USFWS. :(
-----Original Message-----
From: Jane_Hendron@fws.gov
To: Jane_Hendron@fws.gov
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 9:10 am
Subject: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Reaffirms Peirson's Milk-Vetch Should Remain Protected
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
Department of the Interior
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
Carlsbad Fish and Wildlife Office
6010 Hidden Valley Road
Carlsbad, California 92011
Phone: 760/431-9440
Fax: 760/431-9624

http://www.fws.gov/carlsbad

Contact: Jane Hendron, Carlsbad Fish and Wildlife Office – 760/431-9440
ext. 205

For Release: July 16, 2008

U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE REAFFIRMS
PEIRSON’S MILK-VETCH SHOULD REMAIN PROTECTED

Second 12-month status review finds plant not warranted for delisting

Carlsbad, Calif. - The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) announced
today it has completed a second status review of Peirson’s milk-vetch
(Astragalus magdalenae var. peirsonii) and concluded the plant should
remain listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). The
Service’s 12-month status review will be published in the July 17, 2008,
edition of the Federal Register.

In the U.S, the plant’s only known population is located in Imperial
County, California, in the Algodones Dunes. Most of the Algodones Dunes is
managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) as part of the Imperial Sand
Dunes Recreation Area (ISDRA).

We were originally petitioned by the American Sand Association (ASA) and
other off-highway vehicle (OHV) groups to delist the plant in 2001. In
2004, we completed a 12-month status review of the 2001 petition and
determined the plant should remain listed under the ESA.

The 2005 petition to delist the plant was also submitted by the ASA and
other OHV groups, and asserted that based on additional data collection
Peirson’s milk-vetch is more abundant than was reported in the 2001
petition, and that the plant’s population and reproductive capacity are so
stable and strong as to warrant delisting. After determining the petition
provided substantial information a second status review was initiated.

Based on our review of all information provided in the petition and in our
files, additional research, and input from peer reviewers, we determined
that Peirson’s milk-vetch is threatened by habitat destruction and
modification from OHV use; predation by beetles that likely exacerbates
other existing threats; and inadequacy of existing regulatory mechanisms to
protect the plant because of uncertainties regarding future management of
the ISDRA.

Although the petition asserted that the population of Peirson’s milk-vetch
is more abundant than in 2001, this claim cannot be supported by the
available survey data due to differences in rainfall amounts, survey
methodologies and variations in climatic conditions between the survey
years.

The ISDRA is one of the most heavily used off-highway vehicle recreation
areas in the U.S. Although more than 27,000 acres is a designated
Wilderness Area permanently closed to OHV use, this area supports less than
nine percent of the U.S. population of Peirson’s milk-vetch. More than 65
percent of the plant’s population within the ISDRA is located in temporary
closure areas. Depending upon future management decisions by BLM these
closure areas could reopen to OHV use, leading to an estimated 41 percent
reduction in the plant’s population.

Another aspect of the 2005 petition focused on the assertion that the seed
bank for Peirson’s milk-vetch is capable of sustaining the plant based on
seed production. Information provided in the petition estimated that plants
produce an average of 14 mature seeds per seed pod – based on collections
from 10 plants at a single site – and that all perennial plants are
reproductive. The Service conducted a survey in 2005 and sampled 416 seed
pods collected from 78 different plants at different locations, and found
an average of only 5.2 mature seeds per pod. Though there may be as many as
15-17 seeds and immature ovules in a pod, only mature seeds can contribute
to the seed bank.

Additionally, seed germination and emergence generally occurs between
October and late February when the ISDRA receives some of its heaviest OHV
use. Studies have shown seedlings damaged by OHVs produce fewer flowers and
seeds, and areas closed to OHV use have larger seed banks than areas that
are open to OHV use.

The Service reaffirms its determination that the 1998 listing of Peirson’s
milk-vetch as threatened under the ESA was not made in error and that the
plant should remain listed.

A copy of the finding and other information about Peirson’s milk-vetch will
be available on the Internet at http://www.regulations.gov and at
http://www.fws.gov/Carlsbad.

The mission of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is working with others to
conserve, protect and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for
the continuing benefit of the American people. We are both a leader and
trusted partner in fish and wildlife conservation, known for our scientific
excellence, stewardship of lands and natural resources, dedicated
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work and the people who make it happen, visit http://www.fws.gov.
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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Washroad »

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: to infinity.

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by crash »

Woodglue wrote:Bad news... ASA's Delisting Petition has been denied by the USFWS. :(
Studies have shown seedlings damaged by OHVs produce fewer flowers and
seeds, and areas closed to OHV use have larger seed banks than areas that
are open to OHV use.
What are these people mentally retarded or just total eco-freaks? Of course the areas that were previously designated as areas to protect are gonna have larger seed banks!!! If they didn't the closure areas would be completely unjustified to begin with. I mean you're not gonna close off an area, or at least you shouldn't, that has fewer plants in it to begin with!! What a bunch of imbecils.

Why is it valid for them to dismiss any gains in population as possibly due to weather conditions, while any loss in population is assumed to be due to OHV use??

The only conclusion that can reasonably be drawn from the above statement is that the USFWS is EXTREMELY BIASED against OHV operators.

As much as I hate to say it, let's get the lawyers working on the next filing.

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Re: U.S.F.W. News Release: Regarding ASA Delisting Petition

Post by Sandcock »

ARROGANCE :!:

Is what I'm understanding is that FWS basically ignored the data compiled by Dr Phillips? These clowns are just like the 9th Circuit, just a bunch of activists.

What's the next step?
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