Olds Hill Trashed by Event

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Olds Hill Trashed by Event

Post by Dusty Rhodes » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:44 pm

There is a huge uproar over at Glamis Dunes.com http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/ind ... pic=114521 as it seems a Planet Sand event left Olds Hill completely trashed again this year. Some sort of Banshee Drag Wars or something. Apparently this has happened multiple years in a row now with Planet Sand having the event and leaving the hill in terrible shape with trash all over the place. Just thought I would FYI the ASA about this.
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Post by phx450 » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:50 pm

Its not a planet sand event. Just a bunch of racers that go out and race. No sponsers, no prize money, etc.
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Post by OBSESSED » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:43 pm

Some people will talk about how "BAD" it is at Olds...
How much trash was left behind by a group or race RE: "un-organized "

This is why Wife and I started the Mini Cleans [9 years ago in September] we were sick of the issue. We did something about it.

Fast forward 9 years, and here the same issue is happening again.

Who's to blame? IDIOTS...
What to do? Let the idiots that trash know they are un welcome.
Then pitch in and pick up some FN trash. Quit talking about it and pick it up!

Some OHV'ers would rather complain about an event that was not a real event that had a few bad trasher idiots... They were sick after they saw the trash, but did nothing.

Walk up to a guy with a beer bottle in his hand and 4 empties at his feet and tell him to pick it up. Peer pressure.
It seems some of the OHV'ers here would rather let other [IDIOTS] ride and let ride, and never make the IDIOTS aware that they are causing a problem.

BAN all Idiots from Glamis!

Go to a mini clean... Do something For Glamis... Make a difference.

Everything else that is typed [about this problem] is just so much BS...

Maybe an eye [carry an ice pick in your rail and pin hole a Idiot's tire] for an Eye is in order, if they wont pick up after them selves? An Idiot that throws down a bottle then refuses to pick it up…. Gets the ice pick…

Hate trash...
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Post by Glamisbound » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:22 pm

Everyone that's been around a while knew this was coming. You can blame Planet Sand and all the idiots associated with them. This is the third year in a row, and every year they say how it won't happen next year. I say get a rope...
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Post by Dusty Rhodes » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:53 pm

If you are following that thread I posted, it appears one of the guru's did the old, I am sorry, it won't happen again, song and dance. I don't think he will get any takers this time.

Just to clarify also, it appears this was not a Planet Sand sponsored event. It was organized and put together on their message boards by people from PS, for people at PS, and in full view of the owners of PS, even after leaving the hill trashed and the PS owners apologizing the last 3 years in a row.
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Post by Dusty Rhodes » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:26 pm

I have to say, after a bit of review and finding out this same thing has happened THREE YEARS IN A ROW, the ASA board members need to get on the phone and ask BLM/ICSO why this event was even allowed to take place for a third consecutive year with the same results three years running. We walk on egg shells and are expected to be good citizens and keep our camps cleaner then when we got there. BLM/ICSO are stewards of the land and are expected to maintain control over that land and not allow this to happen. A little intel work, very little at that, would have told BLM/ICSO that this event was going to take place AGAIN. It seems to me BLM/ICSO has no problem shutting down comp hill and dispersing crowds at Olds Hill during the season, why in hell wouldn't they shut this event down when the same result has come about THREE YEARS IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!! And who gets the black eye over this? We all do! This is Golden Egg PR for the green weenies who can use this to paint a broad stroke over all of us. The ASA is in the best position to go to bat for us and distance us from this behavior and show BLM/ICSO that we are indeed looking out for ISDRA and not condoning these actions. I would even go as far to say that a letter to BLM/ICSO from the ASA board would go a long way to showing them that the ASA cares, and is watching. Am I out to lunch here?
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Post by LoBuck » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:19 pm

I don't know if the BLM was out there last weekend or not, but they were out there last year. Unfortunately, last year the BLM left around 2:00am as I recall and were not there in the morning to ensure the area was clean. They did issue several citations (of various types), made arrests, and sold passes to those without them.

Trust me, the BLM knows about events like this. They have computers too.

Planet Sand has said, and I believe them, that they are (were) not the associated with these races. I think they will be thinking hard at allowing, or rather not allowing, future events to be planned/coordinated by their forum members on Planet Sand.

The next TRT meeting is in September. I'll bring this up in "Concerns from Dune Users".
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Post by L&L Corvairs » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:05 am

Glamisbound wrote:Everyone that's been around a while knew this was coming. You can blame Planet Sand and all the idiots associated with them. This is the third year in a row, and every year they say how it won't happen next year. I say get a rope...
At the very least, get a perrmit. The rest of us have to. Along with insurence. I bet if one of them drag racers got hurt, they'd sue the BLM for not having EMT's available.
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Post by phx450 » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:50 am

L&L Corvairs wrote:
Glamisbound wrote:Everyone that's been around a while knew this was coming. You can blame Planet Sand and all the idiots associated with them. This is the third year in a row, and every year they say how it won't happen next year. I say get a rope...
At the very least, get a perrmit. The rest of us have to. Along with insurence. I bet if one of them drag racers got hurt, they'd sue the BLM for not having EMT's available.
As far as permit do you mean a pass for the dunes? Most of us "drag racers" have these every year. If you mean permit for an event thats impossible. Many of us have been hurt at the hill, last time i checked we havent tried to sue anyone.

Try and keep your thoughts and ideas on how to eduacte or how to make the people who liter stop. Instead of everyone complaining and posting about a problem that has been around for years. I have seen trash in the dunes since the 80's. While i dont think its okay for what happened, i still consider myself on of the drag racers who race the hill on these events. I can say that everyone we go with picks up as much trash as our trucks can hold.
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Post by gelwell » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:59 am

Try and keep your thoughts and ideas on how to eduacte or how to make the people who liter stop
I think that has been done for the past 3 years. Further I applaud your group for picking up more trash than you brought. But since it keeps happening with education and pick ups, the prevailing attitude is: " Dont worry about picking it up someone else will". And the attitude that I see happening more and more is "Do it and ask for forgiveness later". If it keeps happening they dont care because someone is always there to pick up after you.
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Post by Doc » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:17 am

phx450 wrote:

If you mean permit for an event thats impossible.
Why is it impossible to get an event permit?

If it’s organized enough to have people bring in lighting than its organized enough to get an event permit. The event permit will allow the BLM to have enough staff on hand to keep the trash under control.

If you truly do care about the dunes and pick up your trash than having the BLM there will only make your job easer as you will not have to pick up after everyone else. Getting the proper permit will also increase your credibility when you say you have tried to keep the trash down at the ISDRA.

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Post by RX 4 INSANDITY » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:19 am

I have seen trash in the dunes since the 80's. While i dont think its okay for what happened, i still consider myself on of the drag racers who race the hill on these events.
There is no defending what has been done year after year, and the "I am going to make it right" comment has been used before and no longer holds water. The difference between the races in the middle of the summer and during the season is that there is nobody else around to blame for trashing the dunes. :shock: :shock: More than likely, this same group does this during the season without detection. :x :evil: :twisted:

What can be done is what has been suggested, don't allow their summer activity in the dunes. Too bad, they have had their chance, and another chance and another chance and now it should be over. :evil: :evil:

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Post by phx450 » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:09 am

i know that we have tried to hold organized events, but they wont allow it becuase of the racing. I dont know all the legal ramifications or what is involved. Many times they wanted to rope off the right side of olds, have an actual starting light system for races etc, but no permits for such races are allowed at glamis. They tend to have the majority of the races in dumont and pismo, they are allowed to have these setups.
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Post by RX 4 INSANDITY » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:02 pm

but they wont allow it becuase of the racing.
The issue is not really the racing, its the liability. The potential liability of running a BLM "sanctioned" event and something happening. :shock: 8)

This is the same reason that the "sand drags" are not more organized. It is interesting that the concern for liability actually increases the likelihood of someone being hurt or killed. :? Kind of sad!! :( :( :(

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Post by L&L Corvairs » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:53 pm

phx450 wrote:i know that we have tried to hold organized events, but they wont allow it becuase of the racing. I dont know all the legal ramifications or what is involved. Many times they wanted to rope off the right side of olds, have an actual starting light system for races etc, but no permits for such races are allowed at glamis.
Then you shouldn’t be holding the event in Glamis. What you are saying is that since you can’t get a legal permit, screw it, you are going to do it anyway.

That’s the wrong attitude. Perhaps that explains why your event leaves so much extra trash around.

There are many groups who hold events out there yearly. Most of them follow the rules and get their permits. Only yours seems to consistently get called out for trashing Olds.
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Post by phx450 » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:21 pm

L&L Corvairs wrote:
phx450 wrote:i know that we have tried to hold organized events, but they wont allow it becuase of the racing. I dont know all the legal ramifications or what is involved. Many times they wanted to rope off the right side of olds, have an actual starting light system for races etc, but no permits for such races are allowed at glamis.
Then you shouldn’t be holding the event in Glamis. What you are saying is that since you can’t get a legal permit, screw it, you are going to do it anyway.

That’s the wrong attitude. Perhaps that explains why your event leaves so much extra trash around.

There are many groups who hold events out there yearly. Most of them follow the rules and get their permits. Only yours seems to consistently get called out for trashing Olds.
None of them hold race events. Anyone can have organized rides, poker runs etc, but not actual races.

Thanks for the constructive comment. I will make sure to tell "my" group that we can no longer have "my" events. I ride the dunes the same as anyone else. The fact that we are now seperate groups crack me up. You think of it as you guys against us. We will all ride in glamis together or we will all lose it together. Dont think for a second that some eco or enviromentalist will distinquish you from a hill racer.
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Post by LoBuck » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:44 pm

phx450 wrote: Dont think for a second that some eco or enviromentalist will distinquish you from a hill racer.
That is exactly why so many dune users are upset about this. We all lose when this happens.

Don't take the use of "your" too personal. I'm reading it not as it was directed to you personally, but to the group you have said you were a part of by attending/participating.

Thanks for picking up more than you brought :!: =D>
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Post by Flipper » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:39 pm

phx450 wrote:
"Try and keep your thoughts and ideas on how to eduacte or how to make the people who liter stop. Instead of everyone complaining and posting about a problem that has been around for years."

And do you have any ideas on how to help educate the people that showed up at your event?

I know the ASA has done many things to try and educate the public,
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Thank you for cleaning up what you did.
If you were there, did you talk to anyone?
Hand out leaflets?
We all need as much help as possible to keep the dunes clean, and OPEN!
We need to add some chlorine to the gene pool!

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Post by phx450 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:27 pm

Flipper wrote:phx450 wrote:
"Try and keep your thoughts and ideas on how to eduacte or how to make the people who liter stop. Instead of everyone complaining and posting about a problem that has been around for years."

And do you have any ideas on how to help educate the people that showed up at your event?

I know the ASA has done many things to try and educate the public,
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Thank you for cleaning up what you did.
If you were there, did you talk to anyone?
Hand out leaflets?
We all need as much help as possible to keep the dunes clean, and OPEN!
I have attended several cleanups put on by numerous groups.

I bring extra trash bags whenever we attend any event at glamis. I have handed them out at the drags on gecko, and both comp hill and olds hill at 2am sometimes. I have been **** near in fist fights with drunks at these places when i call them out on trash. I do my part in clean up no problem you have nothing to worry about with me.

if you need i can take some pictures for you next time.

All we can do is educate. Pass out bags, call people out, and dont bring I just dont want anymore "outside" involvement from rangers, police, eco folks , etc. I enjoy my riding spots. I also enjoy my loud drag pipes. They enable me to go fast up the hill at all the "drag" events.
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Post by Dusty Rhodes » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:31 pm

Unfortunately, phx, it appears that the last resort is necessary and BLM/ICSO must get involved because obviously the other alternatives of education and such have not worked. Once again the few A-holes ruin it for everyone else in this case.
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Post by Jerry Seaver » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:08 pm

These pictures of some of the trash left after the weekend were sent to me. I believe this is after some was already picked up.

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Post by OBSESSED » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:11 pm

I'm tired of edumacating IDIOTS...

I say, pick up your trash or get an ice pick in a side wall...
It's your choice!

It just makes no sense, educating them, is not possible. Ban them, or ice pick a tire while they are "Racing" the hill... Or standing around the pile of left over bottles…

Eye for an eye.
Burn a pallet at Olds... Get the awl...
Drop a bottle on the ground... Get the awl in the side wall.

Now there's a new idea for an anti litter campaign

I'm sick of the trashers that have an excuse for their actions, and a few flat tires will maybe wake them up.
F the trashers, F them up.

Eye [flat tire] for an Eye...

The trashers and friends of trashers who do nothing will be the cause of the closure of Glamis.
Idiots, don't get this... Idiots never will get it.

Give me a badge, and I will write 100 litter tickets with $500 fines daily at Glamis…
Instant revenue. Retire the cost of the Pass, with just one BLM guy doing tickets and fines…
It’s such a great idea, it will never get implemented…


S

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Post by phx450 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:39 am

I think that $500 fines for trashing the place should be standard.

Hell every major weekend i go to the dunes i would volunteer for the BLM and write tickets to campsites.

Burning pallets $500
Trash $500
Glass bottles at olds $500

Even if they put a choke point at the hill coming into olds, they could check for flags, trash bags, bottles, underage drinking, dui, etc. etc. etc.

I figure a couple $500 fines would sour up some of the most hardcore liter bugs.

Just a thought on my end.
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Post by Wolfpack » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:54 am

What ticked me off most after last year's debacle was a couple of the clowns responding on the PS BBS was basically to the effect of, "Hey, shut the F up. I donated to the trash fund. Get off my azz." Classy, really classy.

Excuse me? You donated a few bucks so your forgiven? There was no remorse. No sincere acceptance of responsibility for their actions. Nothing was learned by them. Obviously. Just attitude.

Screw that and screw them. This year it's the same deal.

Giving PS a pass is a bunch of crap as well IMHO.

I can guarantee that the PS BBS is being watched for future events being advertised there - at any location - and that the agency in charge of managing those areas will be notified of them as well.
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Post by Rekd » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:09 am

Wolfpack wrote:
Excuse me? You donated a few bucks so your forgiven?
Yeah, like buying carbon credits. It's ok to pollute more if you're willing to give someone money for it.

I'm in the wrong business. :roll:
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Post by Voice » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:43 pm

Regardless of whether this was an actual Planet Sand event or not it was clearly orginized at Planet Sand. If Planet Sand wants to deny culpability then fine, they need to expect the harsh critisism that they will receive from the rest of the duning public.
But, if they want to actually DO something about what is being done in their name then they need to DO something.
It would be VERY simple for Planet Sand to orginize some kind of "after race cleanup event" for the Sunday after the race. Clearly they have a reputation for attracting some of the worst of the worst and if they want to continue to have these types of events then they need to be responsible for the consequences.

I can only look at this from the Glamisdunes.com perspective. We have "events" all the time. Some are "permitted" and some are "unorginized" and never have we had this kind of result. There are many reasons for this but one BIG one is that we hold our members responsible by using peer pressure. PS could easily do the same. Evidently they could care less.
Last year we shamed them into comming to one of our cleanups and sure enough a few of them showed up. These guys need to start taking care of their own crap without us shaming into it.

As for actual "sanctioned" racing events I'm afraid that you will find it very difficult to get a permit for any kind of live racing. No starting lights allowed. No direct racing. You can get by with timing single riders because that is really just duning within a defined area but is not actual racing.

I garantee that if you try to set up a christmas tree starting gate you will be politely asked to remove it.
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Post by Wolfpack » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:24 pm

Voice wrote:... we hold our members responsible by using peer pressure. PS could easily do the same. Evidently they could care less.
I couldn't agree more with the "peer pressure" resolution aspect. If we simply resort to rattin' offenders out to the LEO's, while certainly an option, I don't think it would provide a long term solution to the problem. There is nothing like peers holding their own accountable for their actions.

As you suggest, if an event is suggested, then PS could place conditions upon it like the "after race clean-up." Get names of members who will drive that effort and hold them accountable if the effort fails. Suggested properly, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. ASA'ers do it. Glamis Dunes.com'ers do it. Manufacturers do it.

PS to this point is missing out on an opportunity to really take the lead and do something about it, to make a stand. If they need to ban un-official, un-sanctioned events from their board, they could certainly do so. While I do not endorse, and I cringe at the prospect of even suggesting censorship, PS could take a leadership role in not condoning, and to stop enabling, events to be organized and advertised on their site - at least for some (hopefully limited) length of time. At least until their membership has once again earned the respect of the rest of the dune using community. That's gonna' take awhile, for sure.

Another bummer about it to me is that there are some very sweet rides that their members have built in many of the pic's that I've seen. If only one-tenth of the effort that goes into building those rides would be spent on making sure the hill is left as clean, or cleaner, than when they got there... It's not that difficult. ???

Voice, I hope that the last sentence of your quote above is off the mark. Time will tell.
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Post by Voice » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:29 pm

I just talked with Charlie, the owner of Planet Sand, for over an hour. It was a very good call.
For starters, I'm not sure if any of you have been doing it but please stop calling his phone and leaving messages.

We have agreed that we will monitor his site for future "user planned" events and when they arise we will contact the organizers and educate them on how to make sure this type of thing never happens again.
If they won't listen to us then we will simply inform the proper authorities and be ready with our cameras and we will MAKE them responsible for their event. If they do listen to us and work towards keeping things clean and cleaning it up afterwards then everything will be cool.
Charlie has assured me that he will give me anything we need to make sure this happens. We want to make an announcement post for his forum so that would-be organizers can find the information and resources they need to make sure things don't get out of hand again.

I posted a longer post in the above referenced Glamis Dunes.com thread. If you have any questions about this please email or PM me.
I hope we can take care of this in the future and hopefully make a bunch of new friends! :D
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L&L Corvairs
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Post by L&L Corvairs » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:18 pm

Thanks Brian for stepping up and working with PS.com to try and get this fixed.

Hopefully, they will also step up.
L&L
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Post by Woodglue » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:25 pm

With the moderator hat firmly in place...

For the record, this board encourages only legal means and methods for bringing other dune users in compliance with civilized standards of dune-stewardship. We do not advocate the use of violence, vandalism or ice-picks in the efforts to bring any individual up to par with our above-said standards.

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Post by LoBuck » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:34 pm

I split a few posts made here about the Aug 2007 night ride (unrelated to THIS topic) to a new one: Casualty Count: August 2007 Night Ride

I now return you to the Olds Hill Trashed topic...
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Post by Papa Perry » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 pm

Back on topic.

Old's was looking good on Sunday. The BLM hauled out a lot of thebig items. Then the night riders from GlamisDunes.com showed up to take care of the rest. I was not there, but I understand many bags were filled with beer cans and other trash.

One member Danno333 took some money out of his quad repair fund to drive his truck from Yuma to pick up the bags and take them to the trash bins.

Big thanks to all of those who helped clean the hill.

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