Trespassing on Wash Road

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quadfather
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Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by quadfather »

I spent Saturday in Wash 24 with John (Wood is Good) and Robert (Alyshka). When I left to return home as I exited the wash onto Wash Road I was stopped by a Union Pacific Railroad Police Officer.
He stated that he wanted to inform me that I was trespassing on railroad property. He went on to say that he had been instructed by his superiors to start enforcing the trespassing violations. I told him that per letters from the UPRR received by the ASA we were informed that access to the washes was to be extended to the end of May.
He replied that he was informed that access was only allowed for motorhomes and toyhaulers because they could not reach the washes on the west side of the fence.
I was driving my Toyota Tacoma pick-up with my quad in the bed. He stated that in my vehicle I should and could access the washes from the west side of the fence. Since my pick-up is 2WD I told him it was unlikely that I could reach Wash 24 from the west side of the fence. He said "then I guess you better change your plans and camp somewhere else".
I told the officer that I was aware that ORV's were not allowed on Wash Road but because I was in a street legal vehicle transporting a ORV that I was still allowed access. He stated that this was not what was relayed to him by his superiors. I asked that he relay to his superiors what our understanding of the access issue was and to have them clarify this to the ASA.
He stated that he would be informing violators before he began issuing tickets and he was using "officer discretion" and would not ticket me.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by GoofyDuner »

what power does a UPRR cop have ..If he writes a ticket.does it mean the same as a normal cop...Is he a glorified rent a cop...whats the deal???do his tickets mean anything in the real world????..I would like some more info on this....thanks for you time ....justin
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by quadfather »

What struck me as unusual was that he was under the impression that it was ok for motorhomes and toyhaulers to traverse Wash Road but not a street legal pick-up truck with an ATV in the bed.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by azsandrider »

Railroad police have full police powers on RR rightaway......

But how can there be 'selective' trespassing depending on the type of vehicle you are driving???? That would never be upheld in court. Plus, they need to have proper signage before they could start writing for trespassing.....

Looks like the RR is serious about closing that road and I don't think there is anything the ASA or BLM can do about it short of legal action.
:( :( :(

I hope the BLM gets the red tape cleard to build a new road.....
(The above statement is my own opinion and not that of the ASA's.)

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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by gelwell »

azsandrider wrote:Railroad police have full police powers on RR rightaway......

But how can there be 'selective' trespassing depending on the type of vehicle you are driving???? That would never be upheld in court. Plus, they need to have proper signage before they could start writing for trespassing.....

Looks like the RR is serious about closing that road and I don't think there is anything the ASA or BLM can do about it short of legal action.
:( :( :(

I hope the BLM gets the red tape cleard to build a new road.....
They have full police powers: Does that mean they shoot tresspassers? :shock: If they wrote a ticket where do the fines go, to the county or the RR? How can a business enterprise get full police powers when they are not protecting the public but the enterprise? Seems a tad fishy to me.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Washroad »

What would happen if I should decide not to recognize their authority over me? As a free citizen, I should have that right.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by old flatty »

Washroad wrote:What would happen if I should decide not to recognize their authority over me? As a free citizen, I should have that right.
you would probably spend the night in the gray bar hotel, either in Yuma or El Centro.
you can arrest anyone who trespasses on your property.......
free citizens get arrested all the time
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by gelwell »

Does this mean they can arrest us any where on wash road i.e. north of G, south of the fence?
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Washroad »

How about if I choose not to let them arrest me/detain me?

We have way too much freakin' "authority" in this country and much of it is being used badly. I'm freakin' tired of it. :evil:
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Voice »

Meh...
Write the ticket. I'll see ya in court.

I'd like to see what a "Warrant for arrest" from the RR looks like. LOL
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by MattV »

Voice wrote:Meh...
Write the ticket. I'll see ya in court.

I'd like to see what a "Warrant for arrest" from the RR looks like. LOL
It looks the same as any other warrant issued by judges in whatever court he cites you into.

Differentiating between vehicle types, though, should make it all but impossible to get a conviction. Of course I don't think that will be the case for long...
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by OLD GUY »

As a retired law enforcement officer I feel the need to explain something. The railroad police have the same powers of enforcement as any other officer. The biggest difference is there territory. The property is the jurisdiction. In the past I have worked with them and assited them with many cases. If you are cited or arrested by them you will be brought to the court that has direct jurisdiction over the geographiocal area where the crime was committed. They don hot have there own laws, they enforce both local and state laws within there jurisdiction. if someone fails to appear the warrant is issued by the court not the police. Only a court can issue a warrant or a writ. Well there's my two cents worth.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Washroad »

So, are they govmint employees or employees of the railroad?

If they're employees of the railroad they're no more than a freakin' security guard in my book.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by MattV »

They are employees of the railroad, and are sworn law enforcement officers who are provided authority by state and local governments in the locations they work. They are a federally authorized interstate authority. They have jurisdiction over railroad property. They have the same powers of arrest as any other peace officer regarding violations that occur within their jurisdiction.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by old flatty »

take the advice given here
they are POST trained/certified/sworn peace officers, with full powers
I can't understand why you want to challenge their authority
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I do understand the confusion over any written/verbal agreements that may/may not have been made in regards to wash road and how long the public may/may not have access.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Voice »

Their law enforcement status is much less important than the fact that they carry guns.

Never challange the authority of a guy with a gun. Seems foolish to me.

Give me the ticket and I'll see ya in court.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by OLD GUY »

I take offense to the comment that Washroad made earlier. Those officers are not " Freakin Security Guards. They must complete the same training as any law enforcement officer. And the sad part of his comment is that he must disrespect any officer of the law. Washroad it's my opinion that you should be ashamed of your comment. And you hold a position within the ASA and make commernts about law enforcement in that manner. But I know your comment is yours only, becasue the rest of the ASA membership would not offend others [-X [-X in the way you have
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Washroad »

OLD GUY wrote:I take offense to the comment that Washroad made earlier. Those officers are not " Freakin Security Guards. They must complete the same training as any law enforcement officer. And the sad part of his comment is that he must disrespect any officer of the law. Washroad it's my opinion that you should be ashamed of your comment. And you hold a position within the ASA and make commernts about law enforcement in that manner. But I know your comment is yours only, becasue the rest of the ASA membership would not offend others [-X [-X in the way you have
I asked a question and then I made a comment. I have had numerous problems with "security guards" and dislike dealing with them, usually no more than "wannabe cops" that couldn't pass the exams and get hired, and several of them carried guns. You may take offense if you want but none was intended as I did not know their full authority. I understand now but still do not like it.

I do not show any disrespect for law enforcement officers, not since I was last arrested as a teenager, and I consider many LEOs to be friends. I still, to this very day, have trouble with authority. I dislike it immensely.

We, as Americans, should always be distrustful of authority. We should always question authority. Do it the "right" way, but question it. If I have to go to court, so be it. I do submit to authority when I have to, but I don't like it. Never have.

The way I look at it, the more authority the less freedom.

I'm angry nowadays. I've been angry since the last election and I see America going to hell really fast, like, downhill with no brakes and idiots are praising the rocknroll messiah. I'm angry. I'm really pissed off.

Then the UPRR comes along and builds a (%(_&+(%^(& fence.

Then (and I've never seen them before) they send their own police out. The UPRR has to have their own police! Jeezjumpingpalomino!!

Yeah, I'm angry.

Govmint authority.....can't dune north of the highway, can't dune here, can't go there, can't do this, can't do that, can't own this, our constitution tells us one thing, but govmint authority does as it pleases and makes us do another. How much more are we supposed to take?

And yes, it does make me angry that the UPRR leo didn't have his facts straight and someone innocent was harassed. Jeez, why didn't he go after a washroad racer instead? That would have been praiseworthy.

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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Glamisbound »

From Wikipedia:

Union Pacific maintains a functioning police department staffed with officers given the title of Special Agent with jurisdiction over crimes against the railroad. Like most railroad police, its primary jurisdiction is unconventional, consisting of 54,116 miles (87,091 kilometers) of track in 23 western U.S. states. Railroad police are certified state law enforcement officers and have investigative and typically have arrest powers both on and off railroad property if authorized by the state they are operating within. They also have interstate authority pursuant to federal law (Title 49, United States Code, Section 28101. Under Public Law 110-53 SEC. 1526. (RAILROAD SECURITY ENHANCEMENTS), Railroad police powers' have been expanded to include railroads other than the officer's employing agency. All of the states in Union Pacific's 23 state system authorize full police authority, except for Minnesota and Wyoming, which do not grant authority to railroad police at all.

Special Agents typically investigate major incidents such as derailments, sabotage, grade crossing accidents and hazardous material accidents and minor issues such as trespassing on the railroad right of way, vandalism/graffiti, and theft of company property or customer product. In accordance with their duties, Special Agents have the ability to access the FBI's NCIC database to run suspects and vehicles for wants and warrants, as well as criminal history checks.

Special Agents often coordinate and liaise with local, state, and federal law enforcement on issues concerning the railroad and are dispatched nationally through the Response Management Communications Center (RMCC) in Omaha, Nebraska. The Union Pacific Police Department and the title "Special Agent" were models for the FBI when it was created in 1907.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by MattV »

Liaise... Now there's a good word to know. :mrgreen:
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Washroad »

Thanks, Loren. I guess they've always had their own police. OK, I won't give them any trouble if they stop me.

Still pissed off at the UPRR.

So, now that this thread has been hijacked all over, I believe the original poster (quadfather) was concerned that the UPRR police was not informed of the agreement between the ASA and the UPRR about the washroad being open until the end of May.

So, how do we take care of this?
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by jhitesma »

Washroad wrote:
So, now that this thread has been hijacked all over, I believe the original poster (quadfather) was concerned that the UPRR police was not informed of the agreement between the ASA and the UPRR about the washroad being open until the end of May.
Based on recent history I find it much more likely that the UPRR changed their mind again without telling anyone. Seems to be their MO.

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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Voice »

Just what Glamis needs...

Another competing police force.

BLM
IV Sheriff
Water authority
Highway Patrol
and
RR Cops...

Anyone else want in on the action?

OH, forgot the Boarder Patrol
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by Glamisbound »

Voice wrote:Just what Glamis needs...

Another competing police force.

BLM
IV Sheriff
Water authority
Highway Patrol
and
RR Cops...

Anyone else want in on the action?

OH, forgot the Boarder Patrol
Yup, big part of the problem with law enforcement in the dunes....everyone is on a different page...different agencies = different training and law enforcement experience. I mean seriously, there is even a big difference between CHP and IVSO... b/c they handle different kind of law enforcement for the most part.
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Re: Trespassing on Wash Road

Post by vdubduner »

things are changing out there,its been almost 2 years since ive been to glamis,been going to barstow for the races and even made a trip to dumont,with whats going on there,i think ill stay away alittle longer,plus the jeep is just to fun. :D
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