A story that needs to be told

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A story that needs to be told

Post by OBSESSED »

Here is a Story that needs to be told…

Over the Week between Christmas 2008 and New Years 2009 we camped down at Cement Flats at Glamis. Not overly crowded, and very peaceful fun weekend. On 12-30-2008 at 21:50 I was sitting around a campfire… Cement Flats sits down in the small valley between Gecko Road [at the Ranger Station] and the Canal. That peace and ambience that night was only shattered by the occasional fireworks blasting off. It seemed like there were no night rides and no car engines racing. A mellower time could not have been had by anyone. It was the best Glamis has to offer….

So we were sitting and someone says: “…remember when Patrick Henry rode through the country side yelling the ’British are coming‘…” “Hey” I said, “…that wasn’t Patrick Henry it was Paul Revere!”
Well, I stood up and at that moment I saw a BLM SUV snaking down the Cement Flats road. The SUV wound down, and still being in the moment of Paul Revere, I started shouting: “The BLM is COMING… THE BLM IS COMING… RANGER ALERT-RANGER ALERT” And then I started to make that noise like a car alarm “OOWAOOAT…OOWATAOOT…DEE DEE DEE…RANGER ALERT” I said this a few times… What the heck, I couldn’t get a ticket for yelling could I. NO, I am pretty sure you can yell any thing you want [except a few things like “FIRE” in a crowded place etc]… When the Ranger SUV stopped, the wieners in the camp below us pointed up at our camp… And, when someone yelled who’s yelling up there [we were camped right above them] I yelled STEVE BROOKS is…

I watched as three Rangers got out of the SUV with flashlights in their hands [remember the time] and they started to wander around. They walked towards my camp so I walked up to my Rail and watched…
“You see any fireworks being blown off” one of they asked. I pointed further east ward and watch as they stooped down and flashed there lights under my trailer up onto another camp. I went back down to the fire pit and sat back down and was set to enjoy the rest of the evening. Right-right…

My camp mate Mark walks up a few minutes later and says the Rangers are talking to my wife Cathy up at my MH. I figured I better go up and see what was up….

“Hey what is going on, any problems here sir”
“Is your name Steve Brooks?”
“yes it is”
“Why were you yelling earlier”
“I like to yell”
And that’s when another camp mate [who we will call ‘Thrill’] walked up and started screaming at the rangers. “We don’t want you here, get the &*%$ out of our camp… no body is doing anything wrong, and you are not welcome here” I thought [Thrill] was going to have a coronary! He was right though, we were breaking no rules, it was quiet, and the Rangers came down to hassle law breakers, or as he said, turn normal dune enjoyers into law breakers!

The next thing the ranger said really got to me: “you are going to get a glass bottle ticket”
“What glass bottle” I protested? “The one that was under your MH, don’t you know the rules, NO GLASS is allowed at the ISDRA”
Again I asked “what glass bottle?” … Since he asked I said “Yes I do know the rules, I help organize dune clean ups, and the rule says the bottle must be for drinking purposes. I went on to tell him, yes indeed I did pick up a couple of Glass bottles one had some kind of fuel in it and I threw it under my MH so it would be safe until I could dispose of it safely”
“How do you know it had gas in it” the Ranger queried
“Because the group that had camped just above us had left today and left behind a fire pit with nails and crap in it, which my wife and I cleaned up…I found the glass bottles which one had some sort of gas in it, and brought it back to camp…”
The Ranger then said to me: “Wait right here I am going to go back to my truck and write you a ticket”
“WAIT” I protested… “You are going to write me a ticket for something I didn’t do and then I will be forced to plead not guilty and go to court…” The Ranger [Officer Racker #278] just kept on walking.
The woman ranger [remember there was three to this vehicle] stayed behind with me where I could be watched…
The next morn, #278 came back into our camp or over to Thrill’s MH. Thrill was standing on his step of his MH and holding a Corona bottle. Thrill was not yelling this time. The Ranger #278 followed Thrill right into his rig. I didn’t want to aggravate the situation, so I stayed at my rig and watched. The Ranger left and Thrill also got a Glass Ticket, for a Corona in his MH!
Yea, an earlier trip another camp mate got a ticket when another Ranger wrote him for using a trashed Corona [he picked up off the sand] for a spittoon. Again the Ranger wrote an easy [wrong] $75 ticket.
-------------------------------
On 4-20-2009 I sent in this letter along with a copy of my ticket to US District Court-
Below I sent this letter along with a copy of the ticket… 4-20-2009
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Whom it mat concern at US District Court 1-9-2009

I am responding to a Glass Bottle ticket I received over New Years weekend.

I plead “NOT GUILTY”

The Ranger asked me if I was aware of the rules at the ISDRA, when I said yes I was, he responded that I was going to get a ticket for a bottle on the ground near my Motor Home… so here is why I should not be cited [which I explained to the officer].

Rule states [see copy]:
NO GLASS Beverage container are allowed…
The rule goes on to state:
“…any liquid for drinking purposes is prohibited…”
“…persons may pick up glass …discarded by others…”

Now there is a problem with this poorly written rule, and the why of my ticket.

The bottles had been picked up earlier in the day from a “Fire Pit” that another camp had left behind when they went home. I found two bottles adjacent to a old fire pit, and instead of leaving them where someone else could drive over them, I picked them up! I also drag old fire pits for nails and always pick up at least five pieces of trash left by others. I [along with my wife Cathy] founded the “Mini-Cleanup‘s” at Glamis, I hate trash and trashers. Please see:
http://www.glamis-cleanup.org/minicleanups.html

There is my name right up on top with my e-mail address, so when the Ranger asked me if I knew the rules at the ISDRA, I said yes, do you?

Clearly these two bottles were trash, clearly I had picked them up. To make matters worse, I was not even in the area of said bottles! I was over 100 yards away sitting around the campfire, relaxing when a camp mate called my attention to the Rangers speaking to my wife. I offered the rangers to look into my Ice Chest to see if any other “Glass” was in it… They declined.

It is my opinion that this Ranger [brought into Glamis for the Holiday week] was poorly trained and didn’t even know the rules himself.

See the attached copy of the rules [off the BLM web site and also reprinted from Sand Sport Mag.]
Also see my diagram of the area.

Thank You for your consideration of this matter, I am sure the Rangers meant well, and didn’t set out to write a bad ticket, but they did… so please let me know any further actions.

Steve Brooks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally I got my day in court, and I must say, it was an eye opener as to the waste of the federal government. First off, the Marble and granite building, huge and for what El Centro? Parking lot empty, I got there early and was able to count the groups of people going to Federal Court this day- 10...

Finally we were able to go through the glass detectors [haha] I mean metal detectors to go up stairs to wait and be briefed some more. At the time we were requested to be there, there was an announcement by a Fed employee, he said: “…you will not speak to the federal magistrate today, and there is no federal judge” I am thinking great a real waste of a day…he goes on: “you will have a court appointed lawyer respond to the magistrate after you speak about your ticket. The magistrate will hand down your fine, and you will make arrangements to pay…the names are not in any order so if you got here first, and you are called last, it is just the luck of the draw, there is no order of preference”
I am getting a Federally Funded Lawyer to speak on my behalf to a federal magistrate over a $75 Glass ticket, wow, a peak into how the feds do it…
Now we were all let into the court. Right after we were settled another Federal worker stuck his head into the courtroom and asked: “Anyone here today that has a ticket not able to speak English?”
One person raised his hand, I remember thinking that guy looks exactly like a former co-worker of my wife’s named Bruce. Well Bruce [I’ll call him that instead of Jose or Jesus, because that would be stereotyping] , spoke for a couple of words to this Federal Wonk and then the Federal guy says this: “Magistrate could I petition the court that this man goes first so I do not have to wait around until his name is called” As my blood pressure was already going up in anticipation of speaking to my court appointed lawyer, I couldn’t believe it, this Federal Hack wanted to get out of his waiting [that’s just part of the job] and push the non English speaker to the front of the line. Assume the Lotus position and hum along with me: “Aaahummana aaahaummana”
So Bruce went first, and some vendor who didn’t buy the right permit [or something] went next, so I am calculating with two Federal Lawyers here I should only have to wait maybe an hour or so….
“Steve Brooks, would you please come up” I didn’t notice the third lawyer over on the left side near the jury box. Up I sprang out of my seat… I got a look at the report the Lawyer had in hand, the Ranger and said in it, he heard me yelling the ‘rangers are coming…’ Just how quiet must have it been down at CF if a Ranger could get his panties in a wad over someone yelling from 150 yards away? [Of the three rangers one was a woman]

I explained my issue to my lawyer [the short version, I didn’t want to waste the time of the seven others behind me waiting their turn]… and I also showed him a picture of a table in my camp with a few old bottles I have pulled out of the dunes. I also brought a couple of old bottles, one said “No deposit no return” on the bottom… Anyway, my Lawyer brought the picture up to the Sausa and I waited.
The lawyer came back and said with a smirk smile on his face, he said: “You are sentenced to 6 months glass probation. Do you think you can go six months without touching glass at Glamis?”
“Now let me get this straight…” I asked “I must not touch any glass for six months and the ticket will be forgiven?” “YES” and I was handed a copy of form A, the defendant copy.
So, until 3/10/10 at 1:30 pm my probation will run its course. Do not offer me anything glass… Hey wait a minute, my glasses are glass, the lens on my OHV lights is glass are these also illegal? Haha, care to venture a guess?

It is my opinion that the Head Ranger knows that it is easy to write glass bottle tickets, and who would bother to fight them? I mean, I had to drive the 400+ miles round trip, waste a day, take the chance, to prove a point? The point is Ranger brought into for holiday weekends are poorly trained. They themselves do not know or understand the rules. The BLM should learn to count the users of the ISDRA better so there wont in the future be bored [3 to a SUV?] Rangers looking with flashlights in hand for bottles left behind in YOUR camp! Hey, got anyone you want to “PAY BACK” at Glamis? Just throw some old bottles under their Motorhome or Trailer and wait for the Rangers to come by, or maybe even call the rangers and give a heads up to the dastardly law breakers near by…. “Look under that Motorhome over there, a bunch of empties…”

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rick Bowen »

I guess this means.... No more participating in clean ups for you, sponsored or freelance.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Mudkattgowfo »

I can sympathise with you and am hope nothing appears on your record. We have a similar problem here in Oregon with sound checks (DB) each officer does it different and they stop you on the sand but check you in the Hard Asphalt parking lot with trucks and motorhomes around to echo off. We all have our areas of issue and I always hope for better training and that will help solve it.

Good luck to you... =D>

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rekd »

Mind if I go public with this Steve? I can leave your name out of it. [-o<
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by RobC »

Wow, it's amazing how screwed up our legal system really is. Glad to see you back though. I always enjoy you commentary on things that happen around here.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by proglamis »

Good to hear from you, Steve. I'm kind of suprised that you didn't get a littering ticket, too.

Say hi to Cathy.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Woodglue »

Not good.
I think we can all learn a lesson here... don't yeal "The Rangers are coming.. The Rangers are coming..." and all will be well. :roll:

Good to see you around these parts Steve. :wink:
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by jhitesma »

I wondered where Steve had been lately.

Remember, new head ranger this year.

At the ASA meeting in PHX he said he wants to fix this kind of thing when speaking informally to a number of concerned ASA members and business sponsors.

Yet when he was on the panel and the hard questions started coming my impression was that it was just more talk. "We've returned to a family friendly atmosphere" when talking to the press...but "We're going to look for more excuses for tickets than in the past" when talking to his superiors and trying to justify a bigger and bigger budget.

My prediction...the worst is yet to come despite personal assurances that this kind of thing will be stopped.

Actions will speak much louder than words this season. I hope my prediction is wrong.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by GlamisSandDuner »

jhitesma wrote: Remember, new head ranger this year.

I hope my prediction is wrong.

Who is the new head ranger this year?

I hope your prediction is wrong too [-o<
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by GoofyDuner »

There an old saying,Treat others as you want to be treated..this goes for the LEOs as well...they have a hard job..and sometimes a big head to go along with it...if they come to your camp..Say Hi..dont tell them you dont want them here..ask what wrong,and be nice..9 time out of 10,they will be nice back..on big weekend they will be a little on edge,and you should know that when you see them...most of these guys would never be out here if they werent working...give then a break,and they night give you one too......thats my thoughts
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by FunRunner »

Like some of the others I was wondering where SB had been. I was speculating that maybe he and Cathy had gotten so far into the health scene, that they didn't have time for other BS :) I also speculated that after Roxie had died, maybe the spirit for going to the sand had waned.
At any rate, good to hear from Mr. Brooks, and that was a well told and documented encounter/story. It is somewhat unbelievable how something like this can go down....sorta as if from a bad movie or dream....Rod Serling stuff from the twilight zone.... :shock: the evidence that Steve and Cathy were citizens par excellence at Glamis, who organized, participated, promoted etc dune cleanups not being taken into consideration, and possibly verified, if necessary, is disturbing.
I know for myself, I've been at locations in the dunes, picked up bottles, or particles of glass, put them in containers somewhere on my buggy or ATV, and went on my way. It seems if someone in that situation were stopped, that a federal case could be made of a person just trying to be a good citizen and do his/her part to keep the dunes clean. While I'm all for the purpose of the rule, and I've seen my share of bottle in the firepits and at the hills, etc....this particular episode is just not right....

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by FunRunner »

Reading what Goofy said, I can go along with that as well. It works both ways, and the right attitude or lack of can excalate otherwise innocuous situations....Mr. Thrill may have played a big part in the uncalled for ticket that Steve received....guilty by association? birds of a feather? and all the rest, come to mind. Too, bad; shouldn't have happened.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by gelwell »

I had a situation where I called BLM over because I guy was running his generator day night. Generators is my biggest pet pieve in the desert. Anyway BLM came over and looked up over first then went over to my complaint. They checked for trash, unleashed dogs, green stickers, everything. We were nice but confused as to why they would roust us. Still didnt work the guy at the next camp over still ran the generator.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Voice »

I kind of disagree with Goofy a bit.
on big weekend they will be a little on edge,and you should know that when you see them...most of these guys would never be out here if they werent working...give then a break,and they night give you one too
If they are "on edge" then they do not belong there. They are supposed to be professionals.
And if you give them a "Break" they might just take advantage of that break and now what do you do?
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Sandcock »

Last year on Pres weekend at Wash 23 mr bill and I had just arrived. Did a few things and cracked open a couple of brews in a bottle. As we were breaking a BLM Ranger rolled up (we did not realize that it was a ranger), got out and came over to us asking how things were going and chatted for a few, all the while we had the bottles in our hands. As he was leaving he informed us that bottles were not allowed, so we slugged them down, said we would use non-class cups, and he went on his way. No ticket. Maybe its the whole approach and demeanor of both parties :wink: As a DoD employee, I see the beuracracy day in and day out. Its a shame it is the way it is, sorry about the gov experience that you had Steve. It used to be the same experience if you got a federal moving citation, i.e. show up in the a.m., hopefully you would get your case heard early, but it could be an all-dayer. You can now, as you stated, accept guilt and pay the fine. I would imagine that most just pay up because of the inconvenience. Glad to hear that you challenged the process =D>

btw, rise above and don't let the bad experience go negative. There's to much negatism.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by duner_vetrn »

Sometimes, things are best left unsaid! Why draw attention to yourself? Because you can?
Was it worth it? You and your friend mouthed off and paid the price. Good thing you were not dealing with LAPD.

I'm sure the Rangers were looking for people shooting off fireworks. They would have just driven by your camp until you gained their attention. A little common sense goes a long way. Hopefully it's a lesson learned. By putting you on glass probation, that equates to being found guilty.

And I don't know about anyone else, but if I retrieved a glass bottle with fuel in it, I wouldn't be throwing it under my motorhome!

I went on to tell him, yes indeed I did pick up a couple of Glass bottles one had some kind of fuel in it and I threw it under my MH so it would be safe until I could dispose of it safely”
“How do you know it had gas in it” the Ranger queried
“Because the group that had camped just above us had left today and left behind a fire pit with nails and crap in it, which my wife and I cleaned up…I found the glass bottles which one had some sort of gas in it, and brought it back to camp…”

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rekd »

duner_vetrn wrote:Sometimes, things are best left unsaid! Why draw attention to yourself? Because you can?
Was it worth it? You and your friend mouthed off and paid the price. Good thing you were not dealing with LAPD.

I'm sure the Rangers were looking for people shooting off fireworks. They would have just driven by your camp until you gained their attention. A little common sense goes a long way. Hopefully it's a lesson learned. By putting you on glass probation, that equates to being found guilty.
If the LEOs can't ignore harmless banter they need to get a job at the local theater taking tickets, not paroling the dunes with guns and a free pass to do what they want.

I have utmost respect for LEOs but only when they deserve it. These jokers don't deserve my respect and if I were in the OPs shoes I might have done the same thing.

Those Rangers had no business intruding into that campsite. They are not above the law and there are rights granting the OP the freedom to speak, even if it offends the LEOs.

I often camp with LEOs from various agencies, and they would not have allowed those Rangers to run off at the mouth and write bull-**** tickets because some dude drinking a beer told them to GTFO of their campsite.

It's a shame, but their attitudes would have been very different if they knew there were other LEOs camping there.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Sloppyduner »

Good to hear from Obey again!! Look forward to seeing you at the SSSS. Seeing a lot less of you, but seeing you just the same. Didn't reconise you last year.
jhitesma wrote:
My prediction...the worst is yet to come despite personal assurances that this kind of thing will be stopped.

Actions will speak much louder than words this season. I hope my prediction is wrong.
Yes I got the same vibe from this guy as Jason did. I'm glad you brought this up Jason. I saw him try to defend something he really knew not much about (Fees) And I saw him try to shut down a guy who was coming with questions he didn't like. He was like a dog that was just fine, snaped, and then total defense mode. This scares me. If he treats the people dedicated enough to come out to a meeting regaurding the dunes, I could only imagine what his "introductionts" are like with people in the dunes. Worse yet, how is he training the out of towners that come work with him?

On the other hand I wonder just how many cites anyone of us on the bbs would get written for if/when a ranger had to find a violation? It is gonna keep me on my toes this next season. Look out cause I'm gonna point out all kinds of laws my fellow campers are breaking. :mrgreen: No tickets in my camp. [-X

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by duner_vetrn »

REKD, I respectfully disagree. Some of my thoughts are below, in no particular order.


I have been a visitor to the Imperial Sand Dunes for many years. I camp at Glamis, Ogilby, Buttercup and Gordon’s Well. I went to Boardmanville before the current log cabin structure was even built! Boardmanville was an aluminum building, which is also still there. I’m no stranger to the ISD.

During busy weekends, BLM imports LEO’s from throughout the Country to supplement their staffing. I’m sure these Rangers really don’t want to be there in the first place. Could that affect their attitude? Sure can. Is it right? NO. Is it reality? YES. The imported Rangers have no idea about ISD law enforcement. They’re probably given a crash course on what to do, and that’s it! That’s reality. Something to be aware of.

Let’s discuss some laws…..

First is a law of Physics – Newton’s laws of motion:

"To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

You read of the BLM Rangers reaction to the actions of Obsessed and Thrill. Newton was right! Had Obsessed not caused the action, there would not have been the reaction.

“Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.”

The Rangers were in motion. They were probably looking for people shooting off fireworks. Instead they found someone shooting off their mouth. A little respect goes a long way. Again, “external forces” created by Obsessed caused the change in uniform motion. Physics my friend, mixed with a little common sense.

And another very important concept that has proven true, time and time again:
The golden rule is best interpreted as saying: "Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated." If you act in a given way toward another, and yet are unwilling to be treated that way in the same circumstances, then you violate the rule. Put another way: "do to others what you would like to be done to you.” Act responsibly.

Let’s not ignore the Risk Management concept either.

The strategies to manage risk include avoiding the risk, reducing the negative effect of the risk, and accepting some or all of the consequences of a particular risk.
In other words, what can go wrong if I do this? Do I really need to do this? Am I willing to suffer the consequences? Risk Management should be a part of decision making. If I yell at the Rangers, what could possibly go wrong???? Dude, they are not robots. They are human. We expect the Rangers to be professional. We need to do the same.

You state that the Rangers had no business intruding into their campsite. My friend, I am not an attorney or LEO. However, I am familiar with the laws and regulations which govern the ISD. LEO’s do have the authority and right to come into your ISD campsite at any time. They have the right to inspect your OHV vehicles. The law gives them the right to talk with you. We have Rangers come into our campsite a couple times a year. Only on one occasion last year at Ogilby did we encounter a Ranger with an attitude regarding a dunes permit. Remember, Rangers / LEO’s are recruited from the human race. They bring with them good and bad at times. Yes we expect them to act professional 100% of the time. Do you? I know I don’t. When dealing with the public, they should, but then again let’s get back to real world situations and reality.

I am familiar with “Freedom of Speech” as defined in our Bill of Rights. But along with rights come responsibilities and good judgment!

I think a lesson learned for all would be to not interrupt the Rangers as they drive by. Don’t draw attention to yourself. Newton’s Laws could kick in, and you could get an attitude ticket! It’s not worth it.

Hope everyone enjoys the upcoming desert season! :D

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by duner_vetrn »

This information also applies and can be very helpful:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rekd »

duner_vetrn wrote:REKD, I respectfully disagree.
Then we will have to agree to disagree. :)

I fully understand the consequences of my actions, I have for a very long time. And I'm not saying to scream at LEOs when they come in your camp. I am saying to exercise your rights if they start pushing you around for no reason, like they did here, and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are not welcome there. They are not above the law they are trying to enforce.

I understand the law and will not be bullied by Rangers (or other LEOs) that a) don't really know the law and b) have pre-constructed attitudes. It's obvious Steve and "Thrill" will not be bullied either.

When you claimed Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated, you were absolutely correct. And that road, my friend, is a two way street. :wink:

:edit: I don't do videos (dialup), cliff-notes?? :mrgreen:
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by duner_vetrn »

I fully understand the consequences of my actions, I have for a very long time. And I'm not saying to scream at LEOs when they come in your camp. I am saying to exercise your rights if they start pushing you around for no reason

I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!
I understand the law and will not be bullied by Rangers (or other LEOs) that a) don't really know the law and b) have pre-constructed attitudes.
Again, I agree 100%. Society expects professionalism from the law enforcement community.

When you claimed Treat others only in ways that you're willing to be treated, you were absolutely correct. And that road, my friend, is a two way street. :wink:
Yes it is a two way street. 100% agree.
:edit: I don't do videos (dialup), cliff-notes??
It's a short video by Chris Rock. "How not to get your ***** kicked by the police."
It's pretty good. Check it out if you get to Internet connection somewhere other than dial-up.

Take care my friend----

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rekd »

duner_vetrn wrote:It's a short video by Chris Rock. "How not to get your ***** kicked by the police."
It's pretty good. Check it out if you get to Internet connection somewhere other than dial-up.

Take care my friend----
Seen it. It's hilarious. And good advice! =D>
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Woodglue »

Welcome to the board duner_vetrn! :wink:
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Just some thoughts….

Which I’ll preface with….I’m not a fan of increased LEO’s out there. I think we have more then enough when they can respond to a noise complaint in Wash 22. (or 23 or where ever it was) There should be more important, pressing things for them to do. Let's have fewer of them there so our fees don't go up.

OTOH…IMO, it is highly doubtful that Mr. Brooks would have had any tickets or even an interaction with the rangers had he not drawn their attention. From the Rangers POV, they didn’t know what kind of illegal activity was going on that required someone to ‘warn’ the surrounding camps that ‘The Rangers are Coming’.

Steve and his buddy Thrill failed the ‘Attitude Test’, plain and simple. Seen that happen in my own camp by people who left their empties (cans) around the fire the night before and didn’t clean them up first thing next morning. Coupled with a smart mouth (as well as probably hung over) to the Ranger…..”Here’s your Sign” (i.e. ticket)

Steve and Cathy have done a lot of great things for the dunes. I hope they continue to do so. It’s a better place because of them.

Personally, I never argue with LEO’s. They have the right to shoot first and investigate after. Ticking these folks off just gives them more reason to dig deeper. Do they write some bogus tickets? I bet they do. What percentage do you think it is? 1%,? 5%? 10%? 50%?

The only bogus tickets we hear about are the ones they write ‘US’. The ‘OTHER GUY’, usually deserves his.

I think the percentage is very small. And that’s why we are allowed our day in court. It’s a ticket. It’s our word against the officers. We can contest it. It’s not economical to do so, but we can. And it’s in COURT that we should make our argument. NOT in the LEO’s face in the dunes.

JMO
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by All250R »

Hi all. I'm brand new! I've known about the site and association for quite a while, but haven't signed up until now. I came here actually looking for pro duner information regarding fees and closures, etc.... basically things that effect our ability to enjoy the natural landscape of our great natural gift in our backyards. A small bit about me too, I own a small 2stroke engine development business in Temecula, and have been riding the dunes off and on since I was about 10 being a native of san diego - I remember when a small enough amout of people came to our dunes that you could ride double and didn't need a flag, etc without widespread incident or attention being drawn.

To be frank, I'm on the side of freedom. I do my best to hold myself accountable for my actions so I also don't need for you to pay the government to rescue me from me. I don't follow rules purely because they are rules. I view following leadership as a tentative relationship based on the merit and need for the leader. I view legal enforcement of laws as the physical arm of other men's will, and are subject to change and subject to be questioned and revised if needed. I respect the need for peace and the willignness to obtain that peace by force if needed. I believe in the Boston Tea Party and the Revolution of the US from Britain not as hooligans who should have been obeying the law, but as rebels who were strong enough to throw off the shackles of oppression from law and taxes they viewed as unfair to create a better life for themselves. I believe the land was stolen from the Indians by the same rebels who unfortunately were not equipped enough to overpower the invaders of their homeland. Strength is not always morally right, but it often dictates the outcome and course of history anyway, and for that reason, strength in law enforcement needs to examined and held in check by the taxpayers who enable their activities.

As such, I believe it's not wise to tempt law enforcement to look for reasons to fine you. There are always reasons to fine us, whether you went 1mph over the speed limit on the way home, or left a bottle you recovered in the open. the cop himself broke one or more laws on his way home too no doubt. The law will always find us all guilty from time to time. The two points are, don't increase the odds you'll get inconvenienced and fined for minor infractions, and don't be afraid to recognize that laws are nothing more than the will of your fellow man.

Thanks for letting me come here to reply to what duners are saying. The Sierra club, etc will not stand up for our desire to ride the dunes. we are basically on our own side. We need to stay united to encourage the continuation of our freedom to enjoy the landscape too. I'm also looking forward to hearing more from people who want to pay fees for utilities that they benefit from, like trash and toilets, and less from utilities that worsen our experience of a naturally maintenance-free landscape, like beaurocracy funding bloat that make it necessary to pay $50 bi annually for each of my vehicles, and $90 for 5 or so weekends to reside briefly on the ancient sand, and heavy handedness against mostly normal behavior (like yelling), because I can tell you that when I camp for 2 days and nights off in my own little world, I have never consumed $25 worth of public services to spend some time on sand. So my gut feeling is that the fees are bloated and unfair for what I and many people use. I just want to ride my quad across the amazing and liberating landscape and go home the same way I came, peacefully and clear minded.

Thanks guys!
Jason Barton

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Sandcock »

Welcome to the aSa bbs Jason. Nice piece and well stated.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by 67falcon »

Good afternoon all,

I have something to say and it isn’t to choose sides. I myself am in law enforcement, and have been for many years. I put on my pants the same way as everyone else and respect all as the same. I hear over and over about respect that an officer gives and that they all abuse the authority that is given to them. We don’t want you in our camp or you have no business being here. Now we all don’t want LEO’s around and live free and do what we want, but when it hits the fan the public blames the LEO’s for not being there. I compare this to Compton. A lot of people will demand respect but not give it first until they receive it. I hate that, I respect all like I said until I am shown by that individual that they don’t want it nor earn it. I will admit I have brought the book down on some because they could not control their actions.

True Story: I was walking around a parking lot looking in the back of cars and trucks when I was confronted by a man yelling at me and demanding to know why I was looking into his truck. I didn’t tell him anything and asked him to continue his way. He didn’t stop and started saying some nasty stuff. So I ended up apprehending him and placing in a unit. I had no issues before this with him, but again running his mouth. I never told him what I was doing. (We were looking for a man in the area carrying a gun and was a possible robbery suspect)

Now we don’t know the real reason for the LEO's to be just going thru the camps. But, I do know that I am glad to see that they are out in-force. I am much more comfortable to go out and enjoy a day or too out knowing we have someone keeping us safe. Hats off to them and they can come thru my camp (when I get out there) any time they want.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Woodglue »

All good stuff guys... keep it coming.
All250R, I like you're style (of thinking and writting), as well as your choice in engines and business. Welcome to the board!

=D>
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by ggorman »

Man what a hassle...

By the way, some enterprising researchers in Switzerland studied the empty or full beer bottle versus your skull issue:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19239964

Interesting...

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Glamisbound »

Good to read the above comments from new members...welcome to the board.
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by All250R »

Hey thanks for the welcome guys. Looking forward to more interaction with you all. Long live our ability to enjoy these crazy dunes!

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Glamisbound »

All250R wrote:Hey thanks for the welcome guys. Looking forward to more interaction with you all. Long live our ability to enjoy these crazy dunes!
That is what we are all about...we may have different views on somethings...but we all believe..!!
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by Rekd »

67falcon wrote:when it hits the fan the public blames the LEO’s for not being there.
That's a new one... :wink:
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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by All250R »

67falcon wrote:Good afternoon all,

I have something to say and it isn’t to choose sides. I myself am in law enforcement, and have been for many years. I put on my pants the same way as everyone else and respect all as the same. I hear over and over about respect that an officer gives and that they all abuse the authority that is given to them. We don’t want you in our camp or you have no business being here. Now we all don’t want LEO’s around and live free and do what we want, but when it hits the fan the public blames the LEO’s for not being there. I compare this to Compton. A lot of people will demand respect but not give it first until they receive it. I hate that, I respect all like I said until I am shown by that individual that they don’t want it nor earn it. I will admit I have brought the book down on some because they could not control their actions.

True Story: I was walking around a parking lot looking in the back of cars and trucks when I was confronted by a man yelling at me and demanding to know why I was looking into his truck. I didn’t tell him anything and asked him to continue his way. He didn’t stop and started saying some nasty stuff. So I ended up apprehending him and placing in a unit. I had no issues before this with him, but again running his mouth. I never told him what I was doing. (We were looking for a man in the area carrying a gun and was a possible robbery suspect)

Now we don’t know the real reason for the LEO's to be just going thru the camps. But, I do know that I am glad to see that they are out in-force. I am much more comfortable to go out and enjoy a day or too out knowing we have someone keeping us safe. Hats off to them and they can come thru my camp (when I get out there) any time they want.
Humans are a pretty corruptible species. We are capable of setting up vast and complex systems to both govern and liberate our lives, and with so many temptations and paths at stake in my opinion it takes exceptional people to stand strong with integrity. We hold each other to a very high standard of ethics and capability, but oddly we are far more easy going on ourselves. We forgive ourselves of almost every kind of trespass from being rude on the road to seeing through unfair vengeance on someone. It's amazing how quick people are to anger at someone else's behavior, but are so reluctant to correct their own. Because people in general are faced with the decision to learn from their mistakes so very often, I don't believe bad behavior in Glamis is a cop/civilian topic, but a human one. There's no way we can reconcile the issue in a bb thread without acknowledging that people, not the law were responsible for the ridiculousness and time wasted over a glass bottle. It's an almost thankless task for people to be in the public eye, being held responsible if not held to a cross for the good and bad that happens in people's lives. Sometimes I think the old style of justice would be better if it inspired people to be less lazy about self awareness, less spoiled, make them take responsibility for themselves, if not inspire them to be more honest, and more capable.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by r erfert »

I've always heard
becuase the nature of the job......you can not offend a police officer.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by jhitesma »

r erfert wrote:I've always heard
becuase the nature of the job......you can not offend a police officer.
I've heard that as well. But apparently it doesn't apply to Sheriffs. Or at least not in IVC.

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Re: A story that needs to be told

Post by L&L Corvairs »

r erfert wrote:I've always heard
becuase the nature of the job......you can not offend a police officer.
I've never heard that. And considering human nature, I don't believe it for a second, either.
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