LEO's out of Control!

Imperial Sand Dune Recreation Area • Including Buttercup & Gordon's Well

Moderator: Sitewide Forum Moderators

L&L Corvairs
ASA Board Member
ASA Board Member
Posts: 1632
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:29 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ontario, Calif.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Glamisbound wrote: With that said, one of the things that should be taken into consideration before seizing it without a warrant, is the type of crime. For example, if Homeboy 1 is standing on a corner videotaping Homeboy2 shoot and kill someone, do you really think a warrant would be necessary to seize that videotape?

No, obviously, they would not. Because, as was pointed out, that would be video tape of an actuall crime being committed.

However, it is also incorrect to assume that law enforcement has the right to demand video tape of a third party recording of what/how the officers are doing/conducting themselves at any time, simply because they want it. There still has to be reasonable PC that the tape contains evidence of or related to a crime, not evidence of criminal behavior of the officers themselves. Officers destroy evidence too, when it suits their purpose.

Had the lady involved in the above instead been from Channel 4 News, one can surly bet the outcome would have been radically different.

This all stems from societies growing and, IMO, somewhat justified, distrust of law enforcement in general. I do think a majority of officers (in the 98% range) are honest and do a great job of catching criminals. But that other 2% scares the holy crap out of me.
L&L
It is not ours to decide the times in which we live.
It is only ours to decide what to do with the time given us.

Make the most of your time.

User avatar
jhitesma
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 7791
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 9:57 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by jhitesma »

Glamisbound wrote: With that said, one of the things that should be taken into consideration before seizing it without a warrant, is the type of crime. For example, if Homeboy 1 is standing on a corner videotaping Homeboy2 shoot and kill someone, do you really think a warrant would be necessary to seize that videotape? Would/Should an officer allow Homeboy1 to walk away from the scene without securing the videotape??? No, it wouldn't, because Homeboy 1 could easily destroy that evidence, and likely would, between when the crime was committed and a warrant was secured.

Except that this was a supposedly routine misdemeanor arrest for drunk and disorderly - and a habitual offender apparently as well. Nothing that would justify needing that video to make it stick - even if the video had been of the crime and not the arrest.

Even if she had destroyed the video it wouldn't have mattered. As the article said the guy being arrested was already released by the time the woman making it was being arrested on the trumped up felony warrant. It wasn't a major crime, it was a drunk being arrested for being drunk.


The real issue it seems is the officers attitude towards the people he was meant to be protecting by taking this dangerous criminal out of their neighborhood. The parallels to what's happening in the dunes are pretty strong if you can look at it from the citizens point of view instead of taking the officers side immediately and without getting the full story.


As it applies to the incident that sparked this discussion and the people asking why didn't we push the issue at the time and why didn't we record it. If this can happen to someone who is confronted by a calm and professional acting officer then just imagine what could happen with an officer who's behavior already has other officers present shaking their heads and being amazed that he's allowed to have a badge. There are plenty of good reasons why honest law abiding citizens can and maybe should be scared of standing up for their rights when faced with officers who are obviously abusing their power. As this article shows even those who seem to be calm and honest at the time of contact could end up doing really nasty unjustified things to people if they feel slighted.

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

I thought I was pretty clear, maybe not?!

I'm not saying they have a right to seize property just for the heck of it and whenever they want...that's ridiculous...and I'm not saying that this particular video has any evidentiary value...in fact, it probably doesn't.

All I'm saying is if a video tape contains evidence of a crime, then an officer has a right to seize it right then and there without a warrant for the reasons previously stated.
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

Voice
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 11:56 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Voice »

That video amazed me, and I was pretty shocked. I don't know if there was a crime on there or not I'm just not at all happy that an officer can just walk up to you and just because he thinks you may have filmed a crime can just take your camera from you.
You want that film then fine, warn the lady that a warrant is going to be requested and if she loses or erases the tape THEN she will be obstructing justice.
If I were her I would not have wanted to give him the tape either.
Someone said... "You don't know what else transpired..." and that's true, but neither do YOU! You don't know if that tape had that officer punching that drunk while he was cuffed or was otherwise acting unprofessionally.

I have also been confronted when I had a camera. (it was a still camera) and I was taking pictures of the BLM at the Washroad Gate and of the dumpsters, the first year they were out there.
An officer came up to me and started asking all sorts of questions... "What am I filming?" "Who am I with?" etc. I answered vaguely and moved on, which seemed to be what he wanted. Who knows what I would have done if he had made me give him my camera.
That's just crap.

I think it's pretty clear that if you are a friend/bystander and you pull out a camera it will most likely infuriate the cop. I know that's the feeling I get whenever I do it and I tend to try to keep the camera on the down-low for that reason.
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad in a letter to President Elect Barak Obama
"May God Almighty ... bless the leaders of societies with the courage to learn from the mistakes of predecessors,"
"I hope that you will be able to take fullest advantage of the opportunity to serve and leave behind a positive legacy."

Image

RocketScientist
2nd Gear Member
2nd Gear Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:10 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by RocketScientist »

Don't tase me bro.
Attachments
Corrupt_Traffic_Cop_Cartoon.jpg
Corrupt_Traffic_Cop_Cartoon.jpg (30.5 KiB) Viewed 16056 times

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Officers that have paid the ultimate price to protect us this year (first two months of 2010 only)

HEROS

Police Officer Maylon Thompson (Tommy) Bishop Jr.
Guntersville Police Department, AL
EOW: Friday, January 1, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Deputy Sheriff John Bernard
Grant County Sheriff's Office, WA
EOW: Sunday, January 3, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Special Deputy Marshal Stanley W. Cooper
United States Department of Justice - Mars..., US
EOW: Monday, January 4, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Deputy Sheriff Josie Greathouse Fox
Millard County Sheriff's Office, UT
EOW: Tuesday, January 5, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Corporal James J. Szuba
Mishawaka Police Department, IN
EOW: Saturday, January 9, 2010
Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
Police Officer Alfred Celestain
New Orleans Police Department, LA
EOW: Monday, January 11, 2010
Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
Trooper Duane Dalton
Louisiana State Police, LA
EOW: Tuesday, January 12, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Police Officer Craig Story
Arlington Police Department, TX
EOW: Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident
Trooper Paul G. Richey
Pennsylvania State Police, PA
EOW: Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Captain Chad Reed
Dixie County Sheriff's Office, FL
EOW: Thursday, January 14, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Deputy Sheriff James Louis Anderson
St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, FL
EOW: Thursday, January 14, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Sergeant Noel David Cordero-Guzmán
Ponce Municipal Police Department, PR
EOW: Friday, January 15, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Corporal Christopher Milito
Delaware River Port Authority Police Depar..., NJ
EOW: Saturday, January 16, 2010
Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
Trooper Jill Mattice
New York State Police, NY
EOW: Wednesday, January 20, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Chief of Police Carl Worley
Ross Township Police Department, OH
EOW: Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Cause of Death: Heart attack
Lieutenant Eric Lewis Shuhandler
Gilbert Police Department, AZ
EOW: Thursday, January 28, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Agent Frank Glover
South Carolina Public Service Authority, SC
EOW: Thursday, January 28, 2010
Cause of Death: Assault
Investigator Jerry Crabtree
Franklin County Sheriff's Department, TN
EOW: Friday, January 29, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Juvenile Detention Officer Leonard Wall
Jefferson County Sheriff's Office, AR
EOW: Sunday, January 31, 2010
Cause of Death: Assault
Trooper Andrew C. Baldridge
Ohio State Highway Patrol, OH
EOW: Thursday, February 4, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Senior Parole Agent Ellane Aimiuwu
Illinois Department of Corrections, IL
EOW: Sunday, February 7, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Deputy Sheriff William Frederick Schuck III
Oconee County Sheriff's Office, SC
EOW: Sunday, February 7, 2010
Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
Corporal Jeremy McLaren
Spring Hill Police Department, TN
EOW: Sunday, February 7, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Captain Timothy Joel Bergeron
Terrebonne Parish Sheriff's Office, LA
EOW: Sunday, February 7, 2010
Cause of Death: Motorcycle accident
Deputy Sheriff Don McCutcheon
Clark County Sheriff's Office, MO
EOW: Monday, February 8, 2010
Cause of Death: Heart attack
Police Officer David T. Zolendziewski
Holyoke Police Department, MA
EOW: Thursday, February 11, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Deputy Sheriff Davy Wayne Crawford
Carroll County Sheriff's Office, GA
EOW: Friday, February 12, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Police Officer Robert (Bob) Heinle
Missoula Police Department, MT
EOW: Friday, February 12, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Lieutenant Michael Vogt
Chattahoochee Hills Police Department, GA
EOW: Monday, February 15, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Police Officer Kevin B. Wilkins
Atlantic City Police Department, NJ
EOW: Thursday, February 18, 2010
Cause of Death: Gunfire (Accidental)
Sergeant Alan Haymaker
Chicago Police Department, IL
EOW: Monday, February 22, 2010
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

User avatar
Sandcock
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:09 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Avacado Capital of the World

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Sandcock »

ya know Loren, there are some that just don't understand the job. Some need to seek to understand. As with any company/agency with a lot of employees you will find a bad apple or two, but the vast majority are good to outstanding employees. So do we brand the group as a whole maligned? I hope not.

rock on bro, glad your out there =D>
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

User avatar
GlamisSandDuner
Duner Connection Moderator & Coordinator
Duner Connection Moderator & Coordinator
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:45 pm
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: East County (San Diego), Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by GlamisSandDuner »

Sandcock wrote:rock on bro, glad your out there =D>
x2 =D>
'05 TRX450R
I work to support my duning habit!
aSa Duner Connection Moderator & Coordinator

RocketScientist
2nd Gear Member
2nd Gear Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:10 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by RocketScientist »

You are right, I just don't understand why we pay to have cops out at the dunes to do nothing else but collect revenue.

RocketScientist
2nd Gear Member
2nd Gear Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:10 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by RocketScientist »

The cops at the dunes remind me somewhat of the cops in Ukraine. You have to pay them to get out of a ticket. That sounds bad, but the reality is that they don't get paid enough from the government to feed their family. The difference there is that they don't harass you or pull you over for no reason. You really have to be legitimately speeding to get pulled over. the payment is standard at a couple of bucks. Not that I try to speed all the time. There is a sevier lack of speed limit signs and it is hard to know that the speed limit changes. It is a real hassle.

The fact of the matter is that in the dunes, the entire system is taking money from the duners. The cops get overtime for working the dunes and their management drives them to write as many tickets as they can. It is a gold mine and the duners are left suffering. In addition, a good portion of the dune pass sales goes directly to the Sherriff department instead of back into the dunes to finance improvements. They are taking advantage of us to make money. It is un-American what they are doing.

User avatar
LoBuck
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6786
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 12:48 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: Yuma, AZ
Contact:

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by LoBuck »

RocketScientist wrote:The fact of the matter is that in the dunes, the entire system is taking money from the duners. The cops get overtime for working the dunes and their management drives them to write as many tickets as they can. It is a gold mine and the duners are left suffering. In addition, a good portion of the dune pass sales goes directly to the Sherriff department instead of back into the dunes to finance improvements. They are taking advantage of us to make money. It is un-American what they are doing.
A few problems with your statement above.

Some of the LEO's, that are not BLM, that work at the dunes get paid overtime. Most, that are not BLM, that work the holidays do get overtime.

Tickets written by LEO's is not a gold mine, at least not for the BLM or the dunes. For the courts? Nah. I doubt it would be categorized as "windfall" for any of them. Most fines probably don't cover court costs or the manpower it takes to process them. Any fines paid from Federal citations stay within the Federal courts. Most fines paid from State citations stay within the State courts. Fines paid from Imperial County citations stay within the County courts.

The Imperial County Sheriffs Department gets NOTHING from dune pass sales. In fact, (empathisis on fact), ICSO has not been involved in the sales of ISDRA permits since September 2008. A company named WEP took over permit sales in October 2008.





Someone else will have to debunc the statements made about Ukraine cops. I've got nothing on that.
Glenn Montgomery - KE7BTP
'79 CJ5
http://www.YumaDuners.com - LoBuck's Web Page
DAC ISDRA Sub Group Member - AZ OHV Rep BLM ISDRA DSG webpage

User avatar
Sandcock
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:09 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Avacado Capital of the World

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Sandcock »

I have had nothing but good experiences with BLM rangers and with ISCO. For example: ) When I first started coming to the dunes in 2006 I pulled into Cement Flats and set up without getting a permit right away. ISC came over and asked if I wanted to buy a permit from him. He was respectful and friendly. Got the permit. All was good. 2) A couple of years later freinds of mine came out and their son came off a quad and broke his wrist. The tall lanky BLM ranger with a Southern draw came out of no where and was as helpful as could be and even stayed around and chatted after the couple took their son to the hospital. 3) Me and my buddy pulled into one of the washes. We were the only ones there. We stared unloading and decided to have a beer. We like the beer that comes in a bottle. Well, the BLM ranger comes out of no where and we have the beers in our hands. Busted! He comes up and chats for about five minutes. As he was leaving he says you guys know that bottles are not allowed in the dunes. We replied yes. He said to put the beer in a cup and to have a good day. Now, those situations could have gone the other way, but they didn't and I didn't. So, good things happen out there to.

In regards to LEO presence in the dunes, the LEO's in the field are there becuase they were assigned to be there and do what is required of them. As has been mentioned, if you are involved in a bad situation man up and get the name and badge number and make a complaint if it is that important to you. Its your choice as to what you want to do.

In regards to money wel spent, I agree that it may be spent more wisely. Thats why there should be audits to see what is the most efficient way to get the most bang out of the buck.

btw.........we ain't the USSR :lol:
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

RocketScientist wrote:You are right, I just don't understand why we pay to have cops out at the dunes to do nothing else but collect revenue.
I'm going to stipulate that you had a shioty experience in the dunes with a disrespectful LEO...

But your last two posts were ignorant and lame...
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Thanks Scotty and George...appreciate that
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

User avatar
Woodglue
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6312
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:37 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: Riverside Co, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Woodglue »

RocketScientist wrote:The cops at the dunes remind me somewhat of the cops in Ukraine. You have to pay them to get out of a ticket.
Are you suggesting bribery????
Have you ever bribed any LEO in the ISDRA to get out of a ticket?
I would venture not, and as such I fail to see the connection you’re attempting to make.
My Avatar is BLM's DRAMP Proposed OHV Access under Alt #3.
Purple = Closed
Green = Open
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?
More here

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Woodglue wrote:
RocketScientist wrote:The cops at the dunes remind me somewhat of the cops in Ukraine. You have to pay them to get out of a ticket.
Are you suggesting bribery????
Have you ever bribed any LEO in the ISDRA to get out of a ticket?
I would venture not, and as such I fail to see the connection you’re attempting to make.
He's not suggesting it...he's out right claiming it...hence my last post.
Last edited by Glamisbound on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

User avatar
MattV
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
Posts: 1052
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 10:33 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: USA

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by MattV »

You know, this whole thread was actually mildly entertaining for a little while. It seems now to have shifted into hyperbole and wild, unsupported accusations.

I've been going to the dunes and off roading in general for most of my life. I have yet to have any kind of truly negative experience with a law enforcement officer from any agency. In 20 years of going there, I have yet to be contacted by one at the dunes, other than a wave, or "hey, how's it goin'" Maybe I'm just not attracting attention to myself in the right way?

As for revenue collection? I don't buy it. Knowing some of the costs associated with the issuance of citations, I think it would be difficult to even break even on them. Having worked in a patrol function before, I can tell you that it is exceptionally easy to avoid getting stopped and/or ticketed. Just follow the rules. If you're not engaging in buffoonery, no one will ever notice you. Unless maybe your primary purpose in life is to get noticed.

Also, keep in mind that when you start throwing out irrelevancies like what the cops in Ukraine do, that simply makes it apparent that you're really grasping to justify yourself and eliminates whatever credibility you may have had.

Out.
Water is just beer that hasn't reached its full potential.

User avatar
Woodglue
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6312
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:37 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: Riverside Co, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Woodglue »

I've been attending those dunes called Glamis for over 10 years now. And, doing so on an abnormally regular basis (i.e. 16~20 trips a year) for the last 4 or 5 years. I too can say:
MattV wrote: I have yet to have any kind of truly negative experience with a law enforcement officer from any agency.
In fact, the only exposure that I, my friends or my family have had was positive, if not enlightening (like one trip this season where a BLM Ranger walked into our Wash24 camp because he saw so many little kids running around and started handing out plastic Ranger badges and BLM Stickers!). Or, the multiple times over the years that we have reported 'litter bugs' leaving a mess next to our camp as they depart.... within minutes BLM Rangers were there to take a report.

While this thread started with what I would call a legitimate gripe about an isolated situation, that argument's credibility is quickly being lost with the general blasting of anything LEO.

Unfortunate.
My Avatar is BLM's DRAMP Proposed OHV Access under Alt #3.
Purple = Closed
Green = Open
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?
More here

User avatar
Sandcock
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:09 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Avacado Capital of the World

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Sandcock »

"Knowledge without wisdom is like stacking books on the back of an a s s"

Old Japanese saying.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

User avatar
Rekd
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 3:36 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: teh Debug Window
Contact:

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Rekd »

RocketScientist wrote:The cops at the dunes remind me somewhat of the cops in Ukraine. You have to pay them to get out of a ticket. That sounds bad, but the reality is that they don't get paid enough from the government to feed their family. The difference there is that they don't harass you or pull you over for no reason. You really have to be legitimately speeding to get pulled over. the payment is standard at a couple of bucks. Not that I try to speed all the time. There is a sevier lack of speed limit signs and it is hard to know that the speed limit changes. It is a real hassle.

The fact of the matter is that in the dunes, the entire system is taking money from the duners. The cops get overtime for working the dunes and their management drives them to write as many tickets as they can. It is a gold mine and the duners are left suffering. In addition, a good portion of the dune pass sales goes directly to the Sherriff department instead of back into the dunes to finance improvements. They are taking advantage of us to make money. It is un-American what they are doing.
I hope you're never in a position where you need the help from one of the LEOs that you just crapped on. Not because I think they wouldn't help you, because I know they will! Just as they should.

It's because you don't deserve their help. :!:

And Jason... is this guy your friend? You actually hang out with this guy? Go to the dunes with him?

Really? =D>

:P
What's in your sippy cup?
___□__ □
[l_,[____],
l---L - OlllllllO-
( )_) ( )_)--)_)

ATVs /Offroading at About.com

L&L Corvairs
ASA Board Member
ASA Board Member
Posts: 1632
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:29 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ontario, Calif.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by L&L Corvairs »

To go back to some discussion on this subject.

While I have great respect for Law Enforcement Officers, the below issue concerns me greatly.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/ind ... &start=100

It was written and followed up by a LEO. It concerne me for two reasons. (1). It happened at all. And (2), folks around here, especially the LEO's aren't upset about it. The perception isn't that all LEO's or a majority of them are bad, the perception is that a SIGNIFICANT number policing the ISDRA specifically are at best no longer putting the citizens best intrest first and worst are out of control.

On a side tangent, but related (which I'll explain) I like and respect Glamisbound, even when we disagree. But then he posts that list of 'heros'. Agreed. Most of those guys died in the line of duty and deserve all the respect that goes with it. But it also lists 2 guys that died of heart attacks. People die of heart attacks, even on the job, at their desks, everyday. Doesn't make them a hero. So now, I have to question. Were all those killed by automobile accidents on the job? In short, that list looks to me like a propoganda piece. I'm now willing to speculate that not all those folks died in the line of duty. And propoganda tickes me off. It also lowers my respect for the poster.

The lack of outrage within the law enforcement community about the incidents at the ISDRA concerns me. You guys have the RIGHT to shoot me first and investigate afterword. One bad apple DOES spoil the whole bunch when lives are at stake. The cover up of the pepper ball deal isn't trivial. It required a lot of LEO's to participate in it. This doesn't concern you? It scares the crap out of me.


It adds fuel to my belief that we have WAY too much law enforcement out there.

Note:This was not spell checked.
L&L
It is not ours to decide the times in which we live.
It is only ours to decide what to do with the time given us.

Make the most of your time.

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Lloyd, the respect is mutual, but please don't put words in my mouth.

To say the LEO's around here are NOT concerned about both the incident discussed here, and the one you posted, is incorrect. These issues concern my greatly. And I’ve talked to other LEO’s on this board privately about them, who are also concerned. Which is why I take the time, and put forth the energy, to try and respond to some of these posts. Believe me, it feels futile most of the time. Which is why other LEO’s chose not to post.

I’ll concede that the LEO’s have made some mistakes, some of them significant. Frankly, now that I know what I know, I don't doubt that either one of these incidents happened...and it PISSES ME OFF!! But I don't believe the LEO's are out of control. They have a tough job and make split second decisions. Decisions that most people are not willing to make.
They do MANY good things in the dunes too. Which is why I post. And if not for them in the first place, Glamis would still be out of control. Who was going to stop the hood rats, gang bangers, thieves, and parolees, that were causing so many problems and hurting people...You? Rocketscientist? me? Law enforcement is going to be needed to some degree out there, otherwise it will turn into a cluster f that I'd care not see again. Maybe the level of LE out there right now is too much!! Maybe it can be toned back a bit!! I’ll agree we need to find a balance.

As far as the list I posted, I encourage you to check out ODMP.com. This is the "official" officer down web site that is updated daily with officers killed in the line of duty. The criteria used to determine if it is a line of duty death relies partly on whether the officer was on duty at the time he/she died. Many officers over the years have died of heart attacks brought on during or after a significant struggle with a criminal. Is this not a legitimate line of duty death to you??? The vehicle collision deaths are usually related to officers responding to emergency calls. Is this not a legitimate line of duty deaths to you? Irregardless, I’m sure we’ll never agree 100% on this. We both know any data can be picked apart by a person determined to find errors or discrepancies that can be used in their favor.

Dune on
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

L&L Corvairs
ASA Board Member
ASA Board Member
Posts: 1632
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:29 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ontario, Calif.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Glamisbound wrote:Lloyd, the respect is mutual, but please don't put words in my mouth.

To say the LEO's around here are NOT concerned about both the incident discussed here, and the one you posted, is incorrect. These issues concern my greatly. And I’ve talked to other LEO’s on this board privately about them, who are also concerned. Which is why I take the time, and put forth the energy, to try and respond to some of these posts. Believe me, it feels futile most of the time. Which is why other LEO’s chose not to post.

I’ll concede that the LEO’s have made some mistakes, some of them significant. Frankly, now that I know what I know, I don't doubt that either one of these incidents happened...and it PISSES ME OFF!! But I don't believe the LEO's are out of control. They have a tough job and make split second decisions. Decisions that most people are not willing to make.
They do MANY good things in the dunes too. Which is why I post. And if not for them in the first place, Glamis would still be out of control. Who was going to stop the hood rats, gang bangers, thieves, and parolees, that were causing so many problems and hurting people...You? Rocketscientist? me? Law enforcement is going to be needed to some degree out there, otherwise it will turn into a cluster f that I'd care not see again. Maybe the level of LE out there right now is too much!! Maybe it can be toned back a bit!! I’ll agree we need to find a balance.

As far as the list I posted, I encourage you to check out ODMP.com. This is the "official" officer down web site that is updated daily with officers killed in the line of duty. The criteria used to determine if it is a line of duty death relies partly on whether the officer was on duty at the time he/she died. Many officers over the years have died of heart attacks brought on during or after a significant struggle with a criminal. Is this not a legitimate line of duty death to you??? The vehicle collision deaths are usually related to officers responding to emergency calls. Is this not a legitimate line of duty deaths to you? Irregardless, I’m sure we’ll never agree 100% on this. We both know any data can be picked apart by a person determined to find errors or discrepancies that can be used in their favor.

Dune on
Thank you Glamisbound. The above is very encouraging.

I will check out the site you’ve posted.

Please note, I’ve never said I want law enforcement to go away; just IMO, there is too much out there. While the claim is the place has been returned to a ‘family friendly’ environment because enforcement has run off the hoodlums, we still don’t have Comp Hill back on holiday nights. Another, IMO, unjustified closure. But that’s a beef for another thread.
L&L
It is not ours to decide the times in which we live.
It is only ours to decide what to do with the time given us.

Make the most of your time.

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Right on...

and

Dune on...
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

d_sheffs
3rd Gear Member
3rd Gear Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:45 pm

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by d_sheffs »

As for revenue collection? I don't buy it
yeah, right. In the wash between paradise and before the canal bridge going to gordons, my buddy got a ticket. On radar he was going SIX mpd over the speed limit. first, he doesn't have a speedo in his rail. just first gear through all the whoops and trails over by pratts place. what a load of BS.

funny, he actually fought the ticket, it was thrown out. The DA mumbled, I am so tired of this petty stuff being generated.......like we ALL don't have better things to do.

User avatar
gelwell
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
Posts: 1548
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:14 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Vista, CA.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by gelwell »

d_sheffs wrote:
As for revenue collection? I don't buy it
yeah, right. In the wash between paradise and before the canal bridge going to gordons, my buddy got a ticket. On radar he was going SIX mpd over the speed limit. first, he doesn't have a speedo in his rail. just first gear through all the whoops and trails over by pratts place. what a load of BS.

funny, he actually fought the ticket, it was thrown out. The DA mumbled, I am so tired of this petty stuff being generated.......like we ALL don't have better things to do.
So why doesnt the DA send out a memo to all the LEO's informing them not to be so petty unless safety is a real issue? Seems logical to me and will save money to all concerned. Unfortunately not all people fight their tickets since they have to take a day off drive to El Centro, sit thru court and make their case. So the county wins. I am sure the LEO's out there know people arent going to fight their ticket and get away with it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

Voice
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 11:56 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Voice »

Yeah, I was kinda wondering what that list of "hero's" had to do with the topic at hand...

If I list all of the "fishermen" (US's deadliest job) would that mean we should grant hero status for those who unselfishly give their lives so I can eat Crab Legs?

I get it. Cops have a tough job. But that's their job.
I also get it that they are just following orders. I'm not suggesting that any "individual" cop has misbehaved.

I think that some of the cop policies are out of order, not in sync with the experience I want at Glamis and in my opinion would be much better if their presence was less. I don't need more of this. I want less.
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad in a letter to President Elect Barak Obama
"May God Almighty ... bless the leaders of societies with the courage to learn from the mistakes of predecessors,"
"I hope that you will be able to take fullest advantage of the opportunity to serve and leave behind a positive legacy."

Image

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Voice, there is as much relevance to the hero list I posted as the cartoon of the cop taking a bribe...none...that was my point.

What interests me is why do more people question the list than the cartoon? :-k
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

L&L Corvairs
ASA Board Member
ASA Board Member
Posts: 1632
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:29 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ontario, Calif.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Glamisbound wrote:Voice, there is as much relevance to the hero list I posted as the cartoon of the cop taking a bribe...none...that was my point.

What interests me is why do more people question the list than the cartoon? :-k

Ageed. I blew right by the cartoon. But, then it really didn't impact me at all. I don't think that LEO's are writting a huge amount of bogus tickets. Nor are they taking bribes. Now, there is a difference between bogus and chickenS----. I suspect there are a fair number of those. Yeah, the cartoon is most definatly propoganda. I do beleive that most of those people on GB's list died on the job. Still haven't checked it out throughly, but will eventually.
L&L
It is not ours to decide the times in which we live.
It is only ours to decide what to do with the time given us.

Make the most of your time.

Voice
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 11:56 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Voice »

Agreed. I blew by both posts...
A) There's no bribes going on and I have the upmost respect for cops and LEO's of all types. The cartoon was a non-issue.
B) The list, when posted, is usually there to represent those who have died while trying to keep the peace. In other words, these people died to protect your right to live and deserve our respect. Well, I already do that. I do not need to be convinced of that. So, I also did not read the list.
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad in a letter to President Elect Barak Obama
"May God Almighty ... bless the leaders of societies with the courage to learn from the mistakes of predecessors,"
"I hope that you will be able to take fullest advantage of the opportunity to serve and leave behind a positive legacy."

Image

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

Go to ODMP.org It is "The" site for officer down information. You can find a short biography and the cicumstances of the fallen officer. You can break it out by state, year, department, cause of death, etc.

Here's the most recent line of duty death in San Diego. Deputy Ken Collier who was killed during a pursuit last weekend. His service is tomorrow.

http://odmp.org/officer/20287-deputy-sh ... en-collier
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

67falcon
1st Gear Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:13 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by 67falcon »

Good Day All Fellow Duners,

I have read and followed this thread with some amusement. But I do have a few questions or say replies. If you have so many issues with LEO's at glamis why go to Glamis? Now I went to Gordens over presidents day weekend and had a blast it was my first time going to the dunes. I did see a few LEO's but they were always nice and informative. Heck I even say one pulling rigs that got stuck!! And while out at the hill climbs one even put a spot light on a disabled buggy so everyone saw the buggy. I have heard many negetive things about Glamis....between the crowd and the drunks and the rude riders. Is it still the same or has things cleaned up? If Glamis has issues why not go to Gordons or somewhere else? Which one is better for family with young children?

I plan on a few trips before the end of April since the temp around here is so nice.

User avatar
gelwell
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
6th Gear "Wide Open" Member
Posts: 1548
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:14 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Vista, CA.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by gelwell »

67falcon wrote:Good Day All Fellow Duners,

I have read and followed this thread with some amusement. But I do have a few questions or say replies. If you have so many issues with LEO's at glamis why go to Glamis? Now I went to Gordens over presidents day weekend and had a blast it was my first time going to the dunes. I did see a few LEO's but they were always nice and informative. Heck I even say one pulling rigs that got stuck!! And while out at the hill climbs one even put a spot light on a disabled buggy so everyone saw the buggy. I have heard many negetive things about Glamis....between the crowd and the drunks and the rude riders. Is it still the same or has things cleaned up? If Glamis has issues why not go to Gordons or somewhere else? Which one is better for family with young children?

I plan on a few trips before the end of April since the temp around here is so nice.
Falc sounds like you are new to the dunes. Glamis has cleaned up quite a bit. I dont think anyone is smacking the LEO's who patrol out there. On the big weekends BLM brings in people e.g. Forest Service etc.from all over the west looking for overtime. Sometimes these part timers are il-informed. Sometimes we have local sheriffs projecting overzealous authority that is misplaced. It is in these instances we need to inform the LEO management. Personally in the 30 some odd years of hitting the dunes I have generally have had good experiences since I do play by the rules. But we did have an occurence a number years ago with some DEA and FBI guys doing a shake down at Greys Well. These guys come in Code 3 and light up the desert to a camp right next to us. That drew our attention so we walked over and asked what was going on. We were met with a rude go back to your camp this doesnt affect you. Well I have a guy in our camp who is an elected official who demanded to know. They threatened to arrest him and temporarily did, then turned him loose when they checked him out. As a result he had their butts during an investigation and the FBI guys were reassigned to Texas. Those guys still cant come back to SD without his approval, they're still in texas. Moral of the story is you never know who you run across in the dunes.

If you want a good family place try dunes vista on the east side of Gordons.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

User avatar
Woodglue
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6312
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:37 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: Riverside Co, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Woodglue »

falcon,
If you are hearing these Glamis-rumors 10 years ago or stories you heard yesterday about 10 years ago, I would agree with them.
If you are hearing these Glamis-Rumors as stories that occurred in the last 2 years, I disagree with them.

Glamis has greatly improved over the last 5 years. With my family oriented camp of cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents and what seems like thousands of little kids running around and riding, I can honestly say that:

GLAMIS IS A FAMILY ORIENTED PLACE.
After all, Glamis is where our AZ, Ca & NV family meet to hang out.

It all depends when and where in Glamis you camp and ride at!
If you camp in the Vendor Flats over New Years weekend and spend every evening at Oldsmobile Hill, you will feel like your weekend was rowdy, dusty, crowded and maybe even full of drunks.
However, you will have a 180-degree, completely different experience if you camp at Wash8 one week later.

As I've posted earlier in this thread, I question and take exception to some of what has been posted. I base these exceptions on my personal experiences with ISDRA LEO's, which I've also posted of in this thread. Concurrently, my 2 week old questions of the poster have not yet been answered by the poster. If "out of control" is happening, it's unfortunate and should be investigated. However, I don’t see enough here to substantiate the broad claim “LEO’s Out of Control!” being flown across one of the more popular forums on this ASA website! And, I certainly don't see these claims being justified or defended. To the contrary, you will note that the author of this thread threw his last hand grenade and ran.
Anyone can log into a bbs, post their personal claims against Law Enforcement and leave. This should not allow any reader to simply conclude that the claims accurately paint the entire ISDRA LEO group in a bad light. The "cops in Ukraine" post was his last on this bbs, over 2 weeks ago. IMO, The grenade alone was cause for loss of credibility. And now, he fails to respond, justify, defend.

I’ve personally disregarded the original post and claims “LEO’s Out of Control!” on this basis.
My Avatar is BLM's DRAMP Proposed OHV Access under Alt #3.
Purple = Closed
Green = Open
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?
More here

67falcon
1st Gear Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:13 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by 67falcon »

Guys,

Thank you for your response. I have a few guys from work that are planning a trip to glamis so I will try it out and keep my mind open. I will also try camping east of Gordons and see how I like that. I am from the the north east and Yes dune riding is new to me and catching on quick. We are going out atleast once a month to ride day trips or weekend trips. Even after taking a good spill the first night out and Busting a knuckle (ouch) I rode all weekend!! The dunes are 180 degrees then what I am used to. I used to come home from a ride and be covered from head to toe in an inch of mud lol. I do enjoy it. Thank you.

User avatar
Sandcock
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:09 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Avacado Capital of the World

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Sandcock »

I think the poster was speaking about his LEO incident at Gordon's, not Glamis. There is a geographical difference. Also, one makes preference to go to one place over the other for various reasons. It's all about where you feel comfortable at.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

User avatar
Woodglue
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6312
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:37 am
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7
Location: Riverside Co, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Woodglue »

I agree Sandcock
My Avatar is BLM's DRAMP Proposed OHV Access under Alt #3.
Purple = Closed
Green = Open
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?
More here

User avatar
jhitesma
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 7791
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 9:57 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by jhitesma »

I'm guessing he never replied with the details because I beat him to it having been in the camp when the incident happened and already having reported it in detail here.

Though it's a little disheartening that after a few e-mails with Nicole after filling out the ASA's form I have yet to receive the phone call she said she'd make to get the full details from me. I admit I'm not the easiest to reach by phone but gave her full details on when I could be reached and even stayed home one day when she said she would call only to get an e-mail that night apologizing for not calling. I replied with a list of times that I can be reached by phone and have not heard back since.

That was back in January.

I haven't followed up on this post with anything since I was waiting to see how the ASA would respond to my filling out the form and what kind of follow-up there'd be. So far I'm not very impressed. If all of the complaints are being taken this "Seriously" then it's no wonder situations like we experienced are still happening and a big of of why I sold my second dune pass this weekend. Still hoping to make enough day trips to make it worth having bought the one I kept - but with no one else here locally willing to go back to the dunes because of the kind of "enforcement" we've been experiencing...well. I don't dune alone.

User avatar
r erfert
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:25 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Yuma, AZ

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by r erfert »

I'll Go
I'll Go
gmo mentioned he is looking to go out every other weekend till it gets too hot.
I had to pass on last weekend but did get a ton of things finished up.
Well maybe not a ton :)
Should be in good shape to go next trip.
I haven't had the car out this year at all #-o

User avatar
jhitesma
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 7791
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 9:57 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by jhitesma »

Yeah, but you don't camp Rick :)

I do need to make a few more day trips. And our group isn't writing off all day trips, just camping.

Of course with plenty of hard pack around that doesn't cost an extra $180 per year to visit it's hard to justify taking the dirt tires off the rail just for a day tirp.

User avatar
r erfert
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:25 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Yuma, AZ

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by r erfert »

jhitesma wrote:Yeah, but you don't camp Rick :)

I do need to make a few more day trips. And our group isn't writing off all day trips, just camping.

Of course with plenty of hard pack around that doesn't cost an extra $180 per year to visit it's hard to justify taking the dirt tires off the rail just for a day tirp.
I just checked on the copper sticker on the rail and it's Jan 10.
I supose I'll have to pay that luxury tax again before we go out :roll:

jannypan
1st Gear Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:04 pm
antispam: NO
Please enter the middle number: 7

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by jannypan »

I saw them tend to several downed riders over a five day period during seperate incidents. I saw them stopped several people at the drags that deserved to be stopped. And I saw them giving up their holiday with their family to provide protection and medical services to thousands and thousands of duners.

User avatar
Glamisbound
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:00 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Ramona, Ca.

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Glamisbound »

jannypan wrote:I saw them tend to several downed riders over a five day period during seperate incidents. I saw them stopped several people at the drags that deserved to be stopped. And I saw them giving up their holiday with their family to provide protection and medical services to thousands and thousands of duners.
Good to hear =D>
GLAMISBOUND
Walking the gap...All give some, some give all!!

Image

36' HR Endeavor Diesel Pusher, 330 Caterpillar
2007 Potter Productions Dual Sport with a Redline LS1 and Mendi 2D
'02 yz 426
'04 crf 50
50 cc quads for the little groms

hershman3
2nd Gear Member
2nd Gear Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:05 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Yucaipa

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by hershman3 »

Yes, LEO's are out of control. Period.

New Years eve. We had a DJ. Went around to the camps to let them know. One camp wasn't there. So we're having a good time,. Yes, the music was loud. Around 11:30, aguy from the camp that wasn't there came and demanded we turn the music off. We said one minute after 12 it would be off. He tried to go around and unplug everything.

10 minutes later we were surrounded. An little officer came in and went to a friend leaning on the speaker, who has been coming out here for 30 years and his dad longer then that, and told him to turn off the music. He said it wasn't his music. The officer asked for ID. He asked what he did wrong. The officer grabbed him, and cuffed him. As he was being taken to the car, he was yanking his arm up. My friend said that wasn't neccessary, he was cooperating.

Of course the camp came out. He got on the radio and requested more backup. They swooped in set up perimeter, and went thru the camp checking everything.

Two tickets were issued. One to the DJ for disturbing the peace, the other to my friend for interferring with and officer. ( the officer went to him).

Next day we went to the HQ to speak with a supervisor, none was available to see us. They did ask the name of the offending officer, they called around to see if anyone knew this guy. Some said he was on loan from parks and rec.

Next day we went again. Supervisor said the officer said my friend charged him. What a joke.

I'm a vice principal at a schooland work with officers all day. Even they think it was excessive. They did say, no matter if they are wrong or not, they've been trained to take control. no matter what.

Wonder what would have happened if we really did do something wrong.
Hershman

RocketScientist
2nd Gear Member
2nd Gear Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:10 am

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by RocketScientist »

Once again. BLM is out of control.

Two BLM representatives walked into our camp and were inspecting our campsite rather intrusively. Due to their behavior towards other campers, I approached M. Peterson and asked for his supervisor's name. M. Peterson told me that he was on special detail. He did not know who his supervisor was. I then asked for his supervisor's contact information which he did not furnish. I then approached M. Miller and asked him who his supervisor was. He refused to give me any information of his supervisor or contact information. I told M. Miller that I had a right to know this information. M. Miller then threatened to arrest me for asking him about his supervisor. M. Miller even showed me the handcuffs that he was going to use. I feel that my civil rights have been violated. All vehicles had proper registrations & permits. There was no litter on the ground. There was no music or any negative or loud behavior from our campers in our camp. Furthermore, I was not violating any law or ordinance. I was not cited for anything, but M. Miller threatened to arrest me for asking him who his supervisor was. So I left to avoid arrest....

The next morning, I went to Ranger station to file a complaint. Wouldn't you know that they don't file complaints at the ranger station. Instead I must go on-line and write a letter to BLM, so I did. There has been no response to the letter. I also went to the ASA website and posted the same letter above on the LEO Interaction Survey link. Again, no response.

FYI
“BLM is taking onto themselves law enforcement that is normally saved for the State, law enforcement over motor vehicles. They’ve written into the regulation without authority from Congress, the ability to stop vehicles or to search people, to search a place or a vehicle without warrant or process; to be able to seize without warrant or process any piece of evidence and to test people for potential DUI (driving under the influence).” Rep. Chenoweth,

User avatar
Sandcock
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
7th Gear "No Brakes" Member
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:09 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Avacado Capital of the World

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Sandcock »

Obviously, I don't know the circumstances to your claim, whether its valid or not. However, by your tone and from past posts in regards to this topic I suspect that you have an issue with LEO's.

I have had LEO's approach me and the camp site, both at Glamis and Ocotillo Wells, on a few occasions and have never had a bad experience. On one occasion in the Wash's my buddy and I each had a bottle of beer in our hands. We didn't realize it was a LEO that just pulled up. When he approached us we knew for sure we were had. My buddy and I were approachable, e.g. we did not go into an attitude or have a chip on our shoulder, and we mutually started a conversation with the LEO while having the bottle in our hand. We talked for about five minutes or so and he left, but before he left he asked if we knew that bottles were not allowed. We said yes and he said to pour the beer into an allowable container and left. No citation and no confrontation.

The point is, are YOU the one that has a chip/attitude that brings on the attitude of the LEO. Based on your past posts I have to wonder. If it is you with the attitude and the fact that they know you from past complaints, well, maybe you have lost credibility.

I hate laws and regulations that I find of no significance just like many other people. However, I play by the rules. If you are so objectionable to to the rules out there, get into politics and change things, or start petitioning the politicians to make changes.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

User avatar
r erfert
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:25 pm
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Yuma, AZ

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by r erfert »

Would it be a bad thing inform a leo that there could possibly be audio and or video on premises :mrgreen:

YumaDune
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2001 7:25 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Yuma & Tucson, AZ

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by YumaDune »

After the last Halloween at Glamis Wash 12 I give up on the LEO's... In my HMO they look at us as a source of revenue and that's it. The day we arrived we were checked for a permit at the North end of Wash Rd. and then twice more at the camp.. and that's it for the weekend other than at the hill and also in the dunes below Osborn when the Funco Buggy "WE" gave them cruised by when we were broke and didn't even slow down. The speeders 10 feet away from my MH, mostly quads and bikes were endless and then the sun went down and the fireworks started.. I know some on the BBS approve of the use of fireworks at the dunes and all I can say to that is when and I mean when not if someones rig gets burned to the ground from a sobe bomb, magnesium flare or bottle rocket you best not express your approval around me... why does common sense never apply when it's something you enjoy and others don't... It would be nice if when the sun goes down the LEO's don't all gather at Old's or wherever and don't spend anytime in the wash area's... We'll end with someone killed from stupidity and then we'll all have more rules or 86'd from duning... What a load...
It's Just Sand!!!

Astro
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
5th Gear "Pinned" Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:37 am
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Clarkdale, Arizona

Re: LEO's out of Control!

Post by Astro »

We haven't had LEO issues @ W9/10 :?: We saw the Permit Staff once on Friday morning. I saw them I realized our permit wasn't up, so I went outside. "Do you have a permit" "Yeah I forgot to put it up" "Okay". That was it for the weekend.

Astro 8)
"Just Ride!"

Post Reply

Return to “Glamis Dunes • I.S.D.R.A.”