"Unwelcome"?????

Imperial Sand Dune Recreation Area • Including Buttercup & Gordon's Well

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Duner
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"Unwelcome"?????

Post by Duner »

Hello Everyone!

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Brian, I'm 33, I live in San Diego, I have been going to Glamis for 13 years. :D I am unhappy with the situation at Glamis like everyone else! OK enough said.

I read something I really don't know if I like what was said:

Stephen Razo, a spokesman for the Bureau of Land Management, was quoted this week by The Associated Press as saying, "our intent is to make them feel unwelcome" when he was asked about the weekend's activities.

"Unwelcome"??? Who is he talking about? The idiots or everyone?
Could this be Discrimination?
Because I know one thing. If I were a Manager at a Denny's and I said
that, I would be in big trouble!

What does everyone think about this?

Brian
Save Glamis!

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Post by DOSLOCOS »

Brian, I think he was reffering to the lawless individuals who are causing the most trouble. At least I hope that's what he meant, but the way they change their hats lately you never know.
KEEP UP OR KEEP IN TOUCH!

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Post by mchestnu »

The only part of this that displeases me is the fact that everyone is lumping
this problem on the "ravers".
There were no rave parties anywhere around our camp, or anywhere I
traveled through the dunes. I personally witnessed many code violations
every hour of every day I was there.
According to the LA times, an LA officer that was off duty was arrested for disorderly conduct.
Hardly a "raver"
Lets work on the offenders by hitting their pockets with fines and jail time.

The BLM should try a new approach,

Welcome to the Imperial sand dunes. This is a zero tolerance zone.
If you came to break the law, we will gladly write you a ticket.
I thought that was supposed to be their policy.

I don't think the 150 officers that were brought in were used to their full potential. More than last year, but less citations issued.

The Leo's have a hard job to do, that is very dangerous. this is a fact.
I am not a cop for that very reason.

I think that LEO'S who would gladly write you a ticket is a better approach
than trying to blame all of our problems on one group of people.
everybody lets their hair down sometime.

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Post by jhitesma »

I spoke with Randy from the Yuma Sun and he was given the same quote when he interviewed Mr. Razo. He was surprised as well since he thought the crackdown was to be on lawlessness not visitation but Mr Razo stuck by his comments without adding any clarification.

After the results of last weekend and the continued resistance by the BLM to do ANYTHING to benefit OHV users I think the comments speak for themselves as possibly the most truthfull thing anyone from the BLM has said in regards to the ISDRA in about 4 years.

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Defintely!

Post by SNDGIRL »

Although I don't agree with how the BLM is going about all these closures, I have to share what I have been hearing. I know several people who go to Glamis just to party. The have no toys, nothing to ride, no motorhomes, no money invested in duning. They go there because
"Glamis is the place to party dude!"
Guess what they are saying now?
"Dude why bother, they're closing everything man. Yea the cops are busting everyone!"
:D GOOD, NO, GREAT!
I for one am sick and tired of people with no money invested or any real interest in the dunes, littering, disturbing and threatening my place of recreation. :evil:
We have invested way to much money to have these **** idiots causing my dunes to be closed down! Enough!
Unwelcome? Defintely!!!

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Post by Fuzzy Knight »

SNDGIRL
I like your style!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuzzy :D
If every thing seems under control Your not going fast enough!
1986 250R
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Post by 8ball »

GLAMIS SUCKS STAY AT HOME!!!

i hope more under age drinkers get picked up and haul away
i hope that all the punks with just dads truck stay at home
i hope that more dui check points pop up
i hope that people who cry about comp and olds being shut down at night
get it that they should be riding not setting around do that at camp

Michael
Keep our dunes clean !!

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Post by mchestnu »

[quote] i hope that people who cry about comp and olds being shut down at night
get it that they should be riding not setting around do that at camp

Michael[/end quote]

While I agree with your first points, I can't agree with this one.

Nobody has the right to tell me or anyone else that I can't do something
that is legal. PERIOD! Many people for many years partook in these areas doing just that, sitting and watching. That is what created the draw to these places in the first place. 10- 15 years ago there were no problems. Now there are. It is not the fault of law abiding citizens.
Your logic is flawed, I don't want to insult you, and won't, but we have to stand behind each other for ANY legal occupation on open public land.

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Post by Voice »

You know, until I got involved here on the net and met so many cool duners I would have missed out on one VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT of the meeting places.

Glamis is seperated into two main sections.
Gecko
and the Washes

In order for anyone from one place to hook up with someone from the other place you HAVE to have a meeting place.

I just spent 10 days at Glamis. Virtually every one of those days I spent at least a little time at one of the hills hanging out with friends from Gecko, (I camp at the washes with the Glamis Dunes.com crew)

Without the hills, without the Drags, without the regular meeting places this kind of stuff cannot happen.

They are basicly saying, "come out and ride with YOUR crew, that YOU camp with, but forget meeting anyone ELSE who might be out here."

Vor
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad in a letter to President Elect Barak Obama
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Post by FunRunner »

I for one am sick and tired of people with no money invested or any real interest in the dunes, littering, disturbing and threatening my place of recreation........SNDGirl....
BRAVO!
Glamis is seperated into two main sections.
Gecko
and the Washes

In order for anyone from one place to hook up with someone from the other place you HAVE to have a meeting place.
VOR
.......
Good point Vor; there has to be a point to meet. Olds is a good place for everyone to go as it's pretty central.[/quote]
Last edited by FunRunner on Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Radrat »

Roger I agree.. JUST CLEAN UP YOUR FREAKIN' MESS when you leave.
Pigs.
Chuck Mobley, Dunecologist
VP DUNERS
"The highest priority ought to be human life and the property of citizens."

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Post by OBSESSED »

JUST CLEAN UP YOUR FREAKIN' MESS
Chuck...
...I love ya man...
Don't fear death, celebrate life.
Live Every Day to the fullest.
Live your life with no regrets.

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Post by ggorman »

Steve,
You'd have had tears running down your face over T-weekend at Ogilby--we were there with Cricket and Stuart. That's 6 kids all under 10.

Give 'em magnets, they cover every inch of the campsite in a few hours. Found lots of stuff.

While we were loading to leave, I gave them grocery bags and told them for every bag they brought back they'd get a candy bar. Never seen them move so fast in my life!!!!!! Lots of litter turned in too. Very very cool.

Left the place a lot cleaner than when we got there.

Greg
ASA Volunteer and Supporter
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.

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Post by schraderrl »

When the BLM started the FEE DEMO program is when I felt unwelcome and discrimination.

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Post by indbodyboarder »

I know it's a sad thing for me to say, but I for one am stoked that the LEO's are trying to clean Glamis up and make it a safer environment for everyone. I'm 22 years old and I like to party, however I do it responsibly and don't get out of line like some of those punks out there do.

I was at Gordons on T day and a few friends drove down from Glamis to see us and one of the guys with them burned his whole foot and skin bubbling off of it and was still drinking alcohol. His attitude was, "Screw it, i'll be ok." How can people live like that??!! I don't get it. When im drinking I dont want to jump into a fire and burn myself or get on my bike and drive wrecklessly or start fights. All I want to do is listen to some music, hang out with my friends and relax with some beautiful women. Does anyone else feel the same or am I the only one?

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Post by jhitesma »

ind I'm only 27 and feel much like you do. I want to see the lawlessness stop. And that's why I'm so upset over what we saw on T-day. It didn't stop anything it just moved it from one concentrated place to many smaller places and caused the lawlessness to invade previously peacefull areas.

I'm all for enforcement of the existing laws and regulations and want to see the illegal activity stopped. But I'm 100% against creating new laws and regulations when they can't enforce those already on the books. Concentrate on doing your existing job better before taking on new responsibilities.

What T-day did show is that they can clear an entire hill in 15 minutes. Good. They've always said that can't be done and that's why they can't go in to weed out the trouble makers - if that action upset the crowd as a whole they would be unable to control the situation. Well, T-day proved that false. They've taken away their own excuse now and I fully expect to see a crackdown and increase in tickets for X-mass and New Years. If not then we'll really know whether they are trying to stop the lawlessness or just spread it out enough to have an excuse to shut down the entire dune system.

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Post by Jason G »

I say strict, harsh and speedy punishment for flagrant law breakers. We all know who the problem is out there and its pretty much not anyone on this bb. I feel in order to keep what area that we have left open we are going to have to take action in our own hands. We are going to have to make these partiers feel as unwelcome as possible. Now I dont mean angrily confronting them, just dont help them out at all. If you see them breaking the law report it to the rangers as soon as possible. After all isn't that part of the checkered flag programs slogan, and once these people realize that they not only have to worry about LEOs but also their neighbor. or anyone flying a checkered flag for that matter. Hopefully they will stay home or at the very least find some place else to party.

Now going to the dunes is a place for me to cut loose just like it is for alot of you, But why should anyone feel that the laws are any different out there then if they stayed in the city. I am tired of having to defend my play time because of the yahoos who think the dunes are a dump that they can party on. They have to be made to feel unwelcome! PERIOD!

I am in no way saying that the ASA members should become the dune police. Just police ourselves and whats whats around us that we can control. It makes me angry that it has come down to this BUT, if that is what it is going to take to stop the closures I am going to do it .

I have been reading this BB for over a year now and have not posted much for the simple reason that if a topic runs long enough you good people always seem to find a solution that I can agree with. But to this point I have not seen a good solution so far. What do you think?

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Post by Voice »

I think it's fairly obvious. We need to ban camcorders!!!
It's definantly the camcorders fault.

First, a huge number of horndogs show up, all armed with nitevision camcorders. Next, they all band together to get the mob thing working, then they start shining the lights on all the girls. Next, the girls enjoy the attention and start stripping, out come the camcorders to record the mess!
The girl gets tired of the crowd or the crowd gets tired of the girl and they move, in mass, to the next girl... and so on...

We MUST ban camcorders...!!! :wink:

Vor
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"May God Almighty ... bless the leaders of societies with the courage to learn from the mistakes of predecessors,"
"I hope that you will be able to take fullest advantage of the opportunity to serve and leave behind a positive legacy."

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Definitely Need to Make Them Feel Unwelcome...

Post by ChasMan »

I believe that tough measures need to be taken to get rid of an element that is basically taking over Glamis. This element hasn't the slightest interest in the fact that there are awesome sand dunes out there. Their only reason for coming is the uncontrolled drinking, limited or non-existent rules, and out-of-control partying.

The general trend at Glamis, as exemplified by this year's and recent Thanksgivings, is:

1. There are as many trucks and SUVs on the road to Olds during the day as there are buggies/quads/bikes. We stopped to take a break on a hill above the road on Saturday afternoon of Thanksgiving week, and in watching the considerable amount of traffic go by, it was very noticeable how few of the vehicles were actually capable of heading into the dunes.

2. The average age of the people at Olds and the sand drags is very young, probably under 21.

3. There are very few groups riding in the big bowls between Comp and Olds. I went through there several times from Friday morning through Saturday evening of Thanksgiving week, and rarely had to change direction to avoid other groups of riders. That is very unusual for a big weekend, as in years past those bowls would have been packed with large groups of riders.

4. Olds looks like a garbage dump in the mornings, now that Comp is closed at night.

I would also bet the new crowd at Glamis is not that unhappy about the closure of Comp or the imprompu closures of Olds. It gives them a chance for some excitement as they play 'cat and mouse' with the authorities, moving their night-time parties from one hill to another.

Since the curfews and hill closures are not working, I believe the only to rid the dunes of the undesirable element is to enact a very strict limit on alcohol, and enforce it with all day long sobriety and underage checkpoints at the easy access points to the major hills and the sand drags. With this, the rowdies would soon go elsewhere. This is sort of like throwing the baby out with the bath water, but what other choices are there? At least Glamis would still be available for what it was originally known for--awesome duning.

--charlie

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Post by Jason G »

And the best way to rid them is for us to side with the LEOs and report all infractions, and make them not want to party next to you because you will turn them in. Take down their plate numbers and turn them in to the rangers with all the trash that they leave behind. the LEOs Know that were not the element they have to look out for but, Im sure they would like the help. You just need to go to them with the most information possible. Not he said, she said, they said kind of stuff, just the facts. we need to make the rowdies feel uncomfortable everywhere they go out there.

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Post by Radrat »

Let the games commence..
Chuck Mobley, Dunecologist
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