Caution; political comments follow

[FunRunner]

3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush

On face value perhaps, but after analysis, not so; the press is so anxious to have a victory to celebrate, they're ready to write Kerry in; when the comments are analyzed, the polls will come back to center.

Even though there was TV when JF Kennedy defeated Nixon, and it was largely because of that media, things are not the same today; the media is in flux, especially after the Rather flap; the Internet blogs and chat rooms are where the real news is; and though there are plenty of liberals to be found there as well, it is not likely the election will be decided on alooks good, feels good, must be good basis.

[Glamisman]

If you enjoy the desert in any capacity and for selfish, self interest reasons you should for for Bush. During the next 4 years there will be a few open seats on the Federal Supreme Court. It is imperative that these lifetime seats get filled with pro property rights, limited government appointees. These are the people that ultimatly decide what is law in this country.

In California there is a proposition on the ballot. If I recall it is prop 65. What prop 65 does is limit lawsuits by not allowing a lawsuit "in the behalf of ". The filer of the suit needs to have a real client. In San Diego, there is/was an attorney who was wheel chair bound. He would roll into a restaurant and ask to use the facilities. If he could not gain access because the door wasn't wide enough or the sinks did not have handicap accessible faucet levers he would leave, file an A.D.A. lawsuit and settle out of court for a few thousand dollars. Mind you all of this without any prior complaints from anyone. For those of you that do not own business's, A.D.A. / discrimination lawsuits are not covered by your insurance.

Can this be used to our advantage with the closures of the desert ... I don't know. That would require the brain power of someone who does that for a living. Anyone ??

[schraderrl]

Interesting fact number one:
It takes a lot of vacillation to be the master debater

Interesting fact number two:
The people uncomfortable with political discussion are the same group who are comfortable with fees.

Interesting fact number three:
The latent and in denial liberals on this board get so excited and upset about a few right sided conservative Republicans
Why don’t you liberals walk over to your windows and look outside to see all the Kerry signs down the street
You dirt-poor liberal democrats that feel so out numbered on this board, now you know how I have been feeling in California for the past thirty years
Democrats are just so desperate. It’s that liberal “must be in control” thing, isn’t it?

[Poiks]

3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush

On face value perhaps, but after analysis, not so; the press is so anxious to have a victory to celebrate, they're ready to write Kerry in; when the comments are analyzed, the polls will come back to center.

That sure never materialized.

[sbheg]

If you enjoy the desert in any capacity and for selfish, self interest reasons you should for for Bush. During the next 4 years there will be a few open seats on the Federal Supreme Court. It is imperative that these lifetime seats get filled with pro property rights, limited government appointees. These are the people that ultimatly decide what is law in this country.

This is exactly one of the many reason you do not want Bush, he will appoint Religious Right Social Conservatives whom will want to control our rights and personal freedoms.

In California there is a proposition on the ballot. If I recall it is prop 65. What prop 65 does is limit lawsuits by not allowing a lawsuit "in the behalf of ". The filer of the suit needs to have a real client. In San Diego, there is/was an attorney who was wheel chair bound. He would roll into a restaurant and ask to use the facilities. If he could not gain access because the door wasn't wide enough or the sinks did not have handicap accessible faucet levers he would leave, file an A.D.A. lawsuit and settle out of court for a few thousand dollars. Mind you all of this without any prior complaints from anyone. For those of you that do not own business's, A.D.A. / discrimination lawsuits are not covered by your insurance.

I Agree with shutting down this loop hole, but your example is not a good one. Since he is disabled he was being hurt and therefore was not bringing a suit without an injured party. He was the injured party. Now what he is doing is basic extortion and I agree with that point.

sbheg

[sbheg]

Interesting fact number one:
It takes a lot of vacillation to be the master debater

It does not take much to memorize one position, no wonder the debates are so painful for him. He has only one song to sing!

Interesting fact number two:
The people uncomfortable with political discussion are the same group who are comfortable with fees.

I am comfortable with political discussion and paying the fees. The Fees are there to deal with the cost of us being there playing in the dunes. Why do you want a "free ride" from the government? Your the first criticize others for not paying there way, except when it comes to you. You think you should be exempt from paying your own way, don't you?

Interesting fact number three:
The latent and in denial liberals on this board get so excited and upset about a few right sided conservative Republicans.

Is it not the other way around, if your not a extreme conservative you get your a** ripped?

Why don’t you liberals walk over to your windows and look outside to see all the Kerry signs down the street.

Not on my street. So far there are not too many signs at all!

You dirt-poor liberal democrats that feel so out numbered on this board, now you know how I have been feeling in California for the past thirty years.

I am not dirt poor nor a liberal democrat, I am a libertarian with hopes of not being out numbered on the BBS. Well you free to move to a more conservative state and spend your last 30 there.

Democrats are just so desperate. It’s that liberal “must be in control” thing, isn’t it?

I feel this about both the Republicans and Democrats, they are all attempting and succeeding to control us!

schraderrl now don't be re-editing your comments as you like to do.


sbheg

[Rekd]

3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush

On face value perhaps, but after analysis, not so; the press is so anxious to have a victory to celebrate, they're ready to write Kerry in; when the comments are analyzed, the polls will come back to center.

That sure never materialized.

Of course it did. You'll just never see it because you're told not to.

[Rekd]

Is it not the other way around, if your not a extreme conservative you get your a** ripped?

No. That's usually brought on by stupidity.

[Poiks]

Of course it did. You'll just never see it because you're told not to.

Find me some links from non-right-wing sources, then. Shouldn't be too hard to prove. Every poll result I've seen had Kerry beyotch-slapping Bush in the first one, and still winning the closer second one.

[Poiks]

No. That's usually brought on by stupidity.

No doubt. The stupidity of stating an opinion that goes against the pro-Bush, pro-War idealogy that rules this board.

[polaris2]

A day in the life of Joe Republican

Joe gets up at 6:a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. the water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for mininum water- quality standards.

With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance- now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, ham bacon and eggs. Joes bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower Joe reches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some enviromentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from poluting our air.


He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation costs because some fancy pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everybody the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe bgins his workday. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benifits, retirement, paid hollidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joes employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he will get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn,t think that he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay his bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because of some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitest liberal decided that Joe and the Government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. His car is amoung the safest in the world because some America Hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine drinking cheese eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservities are good. He dosen't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self made man who belives everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

[FunRunner]

Emotions neither prove nor disprove facts. Rational adults used to understand this. But years of dumbed down media "education", such as the sham CBS got caught in, have left too many people unable to distinguish and separate the facts from the emphasis on how people feel, as shaped by the bias in the Times and other media sources.

Just as John Kerry chooses to define the economy in terms of the weaker payroll survey numbers, which is believable, until you look at the GDP, adjusted for inflation numbers, which is a more accurate indication of how the economy is going.

Portrayal of conservatives as hapless dolts who adhere to a dogma, and of a President, who can't pronounce some big words, ignores some of the dumb comments made by Kerry and Edwards. Words used, like nuisance, pertaining to the terrorists, differently and better, which mean in other words, more government and higher taxes; and then there's Edwards remark, that people like Chris Reeve, will be able to get up and walk if John Kerry becomes President. Where does that come from? an inference to stem cell research that would intimate, that if the current administration were on the ball, someone might not die, or might have a miraculous recovery? there are no facts to support the often used inuendos of the liberals, but as the man says, the dumbed-down media educational process has some believing a lot of unfounded spin.

[sbheg]

A day in the life of Joe Republican

Truth is funnier then fiction!

sbheg

[Poiks]

Good post, polaris2!

[NSDuner]

Are you really a Democrat?

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth.

She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs, his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. Based on lectures that she had participated in and the occasional chat with a professor she felt that for years her father had obviously harbored an evil, even selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

The self professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.

During the conversation with her father, he stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she studied all the time, never had time to go out and rarely partied like the other people she knew.

She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, nor did she have many college friends because of spending all her time studying because she was taking a more difficult curriculum.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your good friend Mary doing?"

She replied, "Mary is barely getting by." She continued, "She barely has a 2.0 GPA," adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never studies." "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She goes to all the parties and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over.

Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend Mary who only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter visibly shocked by her father's suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary had done little or nothing, she played while I work real hard!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said: "Welcome to the Republican Party."

[Poiks]

You forgot the other way Republicans "keep" what they "earn," like a high GPA: Dad makes a few phone calls, calls in a few favors, and junior ends up with a high GPA and a wartime slot in the National Guard. Of course, some people aren't bright enough to pull off a high GPA or finish their National Guard service even when Daddy pulls a few strings...

[airkuld]

You forgot the other way Republicans "keep" what they "earn," like a high GPA: Dad makes a few phone calls, calls in a few favors, and junior ends up with a high GPA and a wartime slot in the National Guard. Of course, some people aren't bright enough to pull off a high GPA or finish their National Guard service even when Daddy pulls a few strings...

Or like say when their kid drives off a bridge drunk and kills someone's daughter? Or a cousin murders someone else's daughter with a golf club? Or another cousin has his way with yet someone else's daughter on a beach?

Hmmm......those aren't strings, those are ropes, my friend.

[Poiks]

True, I can't/won't defend any of those dirtbags. Why did the "good" Kennedy's have to die?

[OBSESSED]

Anyone see the PBS special on:
Bush and Kerry
Last night?

Very enlightening....

I thought PBS would put a slant on it, not too bad.

It showed Kerry & Bush for what they were and are:

A war hater [every war Nam/Nicaragua/Iraq I/Iraq-II] living off the government; with a me first in line to get my name in the news political HACK. Kerry's first wife didn't like the ways of political life and divorced him. Kerry strive to run for president, from the day he got back from Viet Nam [see the Dick Cavet interview]. Kerry seemed to be a know it all. He forced himself upon the democrat leadership, he was not their first choice.

It showed Bush as a man who failed in business [oil] but then later made 10 million on the Texas Rangers. He was a 'People' person [president of his fraternity]; who knew he could campaign better than his father. Bush didn't seem to want to be top dog, but liked to just get by and have a good time. His life changed when he became a born again Christian and quit drinking. The top republican's old guard met with him 6 years ago and decided he didn't know it all, but would like to learn, [and was a fast learner] what it would take to be president. He was the Republican leadership's first choice to run.

Interestingly, in the special, Bush would not grant a stay of execution to a woman that had Killed a couple of people. She had become a born again in prison. Bush was at the time picketed [his office] for his unwavering view. "She committed the crime, she has admitted so. The supreme court of Texas has agreed. I can not go against the wishes of the court." He said at the time. WOW, I got shivers up my spine. Bush stuck to his principals, even on this unpopular decision.
That's the kind of president I want. Think, pray, consult about the many hard decisions that will come up. Make a logical choice, then do not back down. Do not be tricked by the liberal media's words. Stand tall, it is a choice we must all make soon. Like the president, I have made my tough choice.


If I was in the Military [or an Iraq policeman], I would be so afraid of Kerry. His past speaks volumes.

If he becomes president, I'll bet less than 120 days and we are out of Iraq.

Is that a good idea? If you are a bleeding heart lib you say yes. If you love the UN you say yes. If you are a Regan Democrat, you don't know. If you want the USA to have a strong military, you say HELL NO!

Is Bush the best President the USA has ever had? No, but he is so much better than public servant Kerry, it isn't funny. If you own stock, sell before Kerry takes office.

[airkuld]

Ah yes Polaris,

All those things were completely unsupported by any moderates, conservatives or Republicans. The liberals and Democrats did it all by themselves. What a bunch of BS.

[Rekd]

You forgot the other way Republicans "keep" what they "earn," like a high GPA: Dad makes a few phone calls, calls in a few favors, and junior ends up with a high GPA and a wartime slot in the National Guard. Of course, some people aren't bright enough to pull off a high GPA or finish their National Guard service even when Daddy pulls a few strings...

John, how can you say that with a straight face? All Repugs have their lives handed to them? That's nothing but idiocy. (Stupidity comes to mind also, but I don't want to get in trouble for calling you stupid).

So when are you REALLY gonna leave the BBS? For keeps, I mean.

[FunRunner]

> > WORKING PEOPLE FREQUENTLY ASK RETIRED PEOPLE WHAT THEY DO TO MAKE
> THEIR
> > DAYS INTERESTING.
> >
> > I WENT TO THE STORE THE OTHER DAY. I WAS ONLY IN THERE FOR ABOUT 5
> > MINUTES.
> >
> > WHEN I CAME OUT THERE WAS A CITY COP WRITING OUT A PARKING TICKET.
> >
> > I WENT UP TO HIM AND SAID, "COME ON, BUDDY, HOW ABOUT GIVING A
> SENIOR A
> > BREAK?"
> >
> > HE IGNORED ME AND CONTINUED WRITING THE TICKET.
> >
> > I CALLED HIM A NAME. HE GLARED AT ME AND STARTED WRITING ANOTHER
> TICKET
> > FOR
> > HAVING WORN TIRES.
> >
> > SO I CALLED HIM A WORSE NAME. HE FINISHED THE SECOND TICKET AND PUT
> IT
> > ON
> > THE WINDSHIELD WITH THE FIRST.
> >
> > THEN HE STARTED WRITING A THIRD TICKET.
> >
> > THIS WENT ON FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES. THE MORE I ABUSED HIM THE MORE
> > TICKETS
> > HE WROTE.
> >
> > I DIDN'T CARE. MY CAR WAS PARKED AROUND THE CORNER AND THIS ONE
> > HAD A BUMPER STICKER ON IT "ELECT JOHN KERRY"
> >
> > I TRY TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN EACH DAY NOW THAT I'M RETIRED.
> > IT'S IMPORTANT AT OUR AGE.

[Poiks]

John, how can you say that with a straight face? All Repugs have their lives handed to them? That's nothing but idiocy. (Stupidity comes to mind also, but I don't want to get in trouble for calling you stupid).

Of course it's not said with a straight face; one joke follows another.

So when are you REALLY gonna leave the BBS? For keeps, I mean.

I'm not sure, really. Maybe if Kerry gets elected? At that point there would probably be too much animosity from the posters here to make it worthwhile...especially because the people here who do know better than to think like the pack does don't speak out very often. You guys aren't as much of a majority as you think you are...you're just the vocal majority. Other people who don't think like you have just given up.

Those of you who are sick and tired of me should probably think a little bit about what it is about me that bugs you so much. I represent the other half of America. You should find a way to live with people like me.

[schraderrl]

The third debate went OK and it looks like we’re still in but it will be close
If they can keep the double dippers out of the ballet box this thing will go a lot quicker
Now let me think, what side will have the most cheaters casting more than one ballot
What side is desperate and has a problem with honor, pride and integrity?

Hello sbheg, you got my "10/13/2004 3:08 AM" PM? I am looking forward to your reply

[Poiks]

What side is desperate and has a problem with honor, pride and integrity?

If Florida in 2000 or military service is any indication, your side.

We don't have to go down this dirty road time and time again Bob, but you just can't help yourself, can you?

[schraderrl]

Nixon got impeached – He resigned
Clinton got impeached – He did not step down

Newt Gingrich – reprimanded for ethics resigned
Alan Cranston – reprimanded for ethics would not step down

See a pattern here?

10/13/2004 11:36 PM
I hope it’s all right with sbheg that I am going to edit or add to my post now
DUK?
Hitler successfully sued Cranston for copyright infringement and unauthorized revision
Cranston made a translation of the Furhrer’s book “Mein Kampf” and published it through W.R. Hearst.
Now I hear some saying “This has nothing to do with sand”
OK how’s this stretch, Hitler revenge on the world, the VW
VW- dune buggy - get it

10/14/2004 12:23 AM
When has anyone accused the Republicans of loosing or stuffing a ballot box?

And one more thing for the liberal union zealots out there:
Do you really think it’s fair to force republicans to pay union dues if they don’t belong to the union but work under the contract? The law says you just have to pay for the bargaining agency fee if you don’t want to join but guess what, it’s the same cost, isn’t that funny

Just one more example of how the playing field is not level

Your the first criticize others for not paying there way, except when it comes to you.

Please explain this quote to me sbheg because I don’t get it

[Poiks]

And one more thing for the liberal union zealots out there:
Do you really think it’s fair to force republicans to pay union dues if they don’t belong to the union but work under the contract? The law says you just have to pay for the bargaining agency fee if you don’t want to join but guess what, it’s the same cost, isn’t that funny

Since I don't know if there are any "liberal union zealots" out there, I'll answer this from my perspective: Hell no. Unions are a joke as far as I'm concerned. I used to employ (by requirement) union labor in an office building. The carpenter's son, a younger guy, told me he hated the union. When he got his first job, he was reprimanded for hanging doors too fast. The union put a limit on how many doors per day he was allowed to do.

Unions don't allow anyone to excel. They force everyone to get the same pay and do the same work. They had their place in terms of developing labor rights, but they are now an anachronism.

I'm not going to get into the Nixon versus Clinton thing here, because Glenn would be driven insane by it. Let me just say that I believe Nixon would have been convicted, so resigning allowed him to avoid being thrown out.

[schraderrl]

Well I guess sbheg will not respond to my PM so I’ll post my opinion and comment here

Not on my street. So far there are not too many signs at all!

So sbheg are you and your Boston Marathon tag team telling me that your concerned that the Democrats my lose in California this Nov.? You’re kidding me right

The California OHV community is dirt-poor if you look back to what we had thirty years ago
Thirty years of Cranston and Feinstein with their land grab green war has taken away half of your riding opportunities
If you’re an Off-Roader new to California or this world you may not realize your standard of living-to-ride has been reduced fifty percent in the last thirty years
It has taken a Republican President and a Republican Governor to slow down this loss and you are starting to see OHV areas reopen (Littlerock Dam basin and parts of the ISDRA)

[sbheg]

Here is a reprint of my PM to schraderrl for all to read. I'll answer PMs on my schedule not yours!

I’ve lived in California since 1951 and I like the weather but the political climate has changed
It started in 1968 with the “Honorable” Senator Alan Cranston (Desert Protection Act and Keating Five) and then Feinstein filled his seat and continues the land grab
Off-roaders are now dirt-poor and can thank the Ca. Democrat Senators

I do not understand why you relate this "land Grabbing" to making "Off-roaders" dirt poor? It makes no sense to me how this relates to each other.

So do you live down by Roy Denner? He’s for fees and sounds like a Democrat

I believe Roy lives in East County, Duncan Hunters turf like I do. It is one of the many Republican islands in California. I am most certain that Roy is a steadfast Republican! I on the other hand, I am a Libertarian, renounced my Republican affiliation( after 25 years) during Bush's first year in power.

“Your the first criticize others for not paying there way,”

What are you talking about here? I don’t get it

With out anything to back up my statement up; I could see you complaining about your unemployment running out or other services that the liberals have but in place for you to take advantage of. I admit I have nothing to base that on except my perception of you from reading your post.

The reason I edit so much is I like to blog or add on to my post but don’t feel it’s necessary to send the thread to the top of the list note when I do this I date the entry 10/13/2004 3:08 AM

Start a Blog then, this is a BBS and if you have further comment then make them in a follow up post. IMO

I’ve lived in California for the last 20 years; my wife is a native Californian, and prior to that I lived in New York(1), New Jersey(16), Brazil(4), Peru(4) and Oregon(2). My living abroad provides me a perspective that issues are not as black and white as Americans like in making choices. I moved to West Coast for the following reasons: Socially more Liberal then the rest of the country; I moved to San Diego due to the awesome weather it reminds me of areas that I visited or lived in while in South America. I enjoy the multi-cultural environment of California, its diversity, beaches, mountains, and deserts all within a short drive of where I live. Even though I was born in NYC, I love California and consider it my home for the rest of my life!

sbheg

[sbheg]

Nixon got impeached – He resigned
Clinton got impeached – He did not step down

Newt Gingrich – reprimanded for ethics resigned
Alan Cranston – reprimanded for ethics would not step down

See a pattern here?

10/13/2004 11:36 PM
I hope it’s all right with sbheg that I am going to edit or add to my post now
DUK?
Hitler successfully sued Cranston for copyright infringement and unauthorized revision
Cranston made a translation of the Furhrer’s book “Mein Kampf” and published it through W.R. Hearst.
Now I hear some saying “This has nothing to do with sand”
OK how’s this stretch, Hitler revenge on the world, the VW
VW- dune buggy - get it

10/14/2004 12:23 AM
When has anyone accused the Republicans of loosing or stuffing a ballot box?

And one more thing for the liberal union zealots out there:
Do you really think it’s fair to force republicans to pay union dues if they don’t belong to the union but work under the contract? The law says you just have to pay for the bargaining agency fee if you don’t want to join but guess what, it’s the same cost, isn’t that funny

Just one more example of how the playing field is not level

Your the first criticize others for not paying there way, except when it comes to you.

Please explain this quote to me sbheg because I don’t get it

You have problems man go see someone for it. Did your wife leave you for a Democrat or something?

ID10 Error is what must be happening in your brain, push the reset button and load a new operating system.

Do you even research your statements? Do you think about how they portray you?

What's up schraderrl?

ID10 Error I guess.

sbheg

[sbheg]

Well I guess sbheg will not respond to my PM so I’ll post my opinion and comment here

Not on my street. So far there are not too many signs at all!

So sbheg are you and your Boston Marathon tag team telling me that your concerned that the Democrats my lose in California this Nov.? You’re kidding me right

I have no concerns about California going GOP, that would suprise me, but not concerned.

The California OHV community is dirt-poor if you look back to what we had thirty years ago
Thirty years of Cranston and Feinstein with their land grab green war has taken away half of your riding opportunities
If you’re an Off-Roader new to California or this world you may not realize your standard of living-to-ride has been reduced fifty percent in the last thirty years
It has taken a Republican President and a Republican Governor to slow down this loss and you are starting to see OHV areas reopen (Littlerock Dam basin and parts of the ISDRA)

Your reasoning about being poorer makes no sense to me. Your as bad as the guys from CBD that have to have it all, can't share with others, can't consider others are involved!

Like what has the Governor done for us Duners? Give me a real answer not some GOP spin. I like our Governor and voted for him in the recall, because his perspective is more Libertarian
Like the President cares or has done anything for us Duners, yet he has let his personal friend Kenneth Lay steal billions from the state of California or that his Texas friends in the Oil business are making windfall profits form the oil shortages created by this great War he has us in.
So what has this President done for us Duners, take money out of my pocket and given it to his rich friends? He has done nothing for Duners truly.

MOO

sbheg

[schraderrl]

There you go again- with the personal attacks

I assumed a PM was considered private and was not to be used on the forum without the consent of the sender.
When I used the term “dirt-poor” I was referring to how my/our kids will not inherit the Public Land I once rode on (but I can see how someone from the other side might interpret my use of “dirt-poor” as some kind of a derogatory remark-sorry for the confusion)

From the beginning I must confess I have had my suspicions of you really being an Off-Roader and I think you picked up on this and it makes you nervous and you over react and lash out at me and that only reinforces my first impression
When you said you first showed up at the protest rally I wondered back then what side did you show up for.
Your response on “guns” is a little fuzzy to me, you gave kind of a general statement-kind of a Kerryesque answer

I allways vote against Laws that limit my rights, like guns, even though I do not have any
I vote for all Laws that repeal social limits imposed by others

Poiks has opened my eyes to the fact that you can be a gun and off road aficionado and be a liberal too (but it seems a little Oxymoronic to me)
You keep repeating that you’re a “Libertarian” as if you’re trying to convince yourself
Every time you see the word “liberal” you act as though someone is holding a cross in your face. Man you really freak out

[OBSESSED]

Do you even research your statements? Do you think about how they portray you?

Who has time for the facts?

Kerry?
Bush?
You/me....

Harold, Bob doesn't care how his posts portray him. He is who he is, he comes accros how he is in person.

Harold is much nicer in public, than on this BB.

Has anyone else but me met them both?

Throw Poiks in the mix, and well, he's nicer and calmer in person also!

Imagine THAT

[Poiks]

Poiks has opened my eyes to the fact that you can be a gun and off road aficionado and be a liberal too (but it seems a little Oxymoronic to me)

Between you and the "political compass" test on the other thread, I'm almost convinced...maybe I am a liberal.

[BHenry]

Do you even research your statements? Do you think about how they portray you?

Who has time for the facts?

Kerry?
Bush?
You/me....

Harold, Bob doesn't care how his posts portray him. He is who he is, he comes accros how he is in person.

Harold is much nicer in public, than on this BB.

Has anyone else but me met them both?

Throw Poiks in the mix, and well, he's nicer and calmer in person also!

Imagine THAT

I have met Harold, and I think I have met Bob as well. I know I haven't met Jon yet. I do know that they are all duners. Which brings me to my point. We have allowed a lot of leeway in these political threads, and some of the rules of the BBS have been severly bent. As long as we keep the personal attacks out of the threads, they will continue as is. I know politics is a hot button, personal issue. Here on this board, I would like to see this discussion remain centered on the Dunes, however, I know it will wander. As long as we agree to discuss the subject rationally, and bring new information to the discussion, I believe that these threads will hold value.

Thank you

We know return you to the thread in progress.

[Rekd]

... As long as we keep the personal attacks out of the threads, they will continue as is.

...As long as we agree to discuss the subject rationally, and bring new information to the discussion, I believe that these threads will hold value.

..

[sbheg]

There you go again- with the personal attacks

I assumed a PM was considered private and was not to be used on the forum without the consent of the sender.

You have yourself to blame for this. You are the one that mentioned the PM and then asked most of your question on the bbs anyhow. So you made it public, showing you could care less about the content of the PM being private.


sbheg

[sbheg]

Harold is much nicer in public, than on this BB.

Steve thank you. I must say the same is true of you too. I enjoyed our selling tickets together and watching the cuties at the show .

sbheg

[sbheg]

From the beginning I must confess I have had my suspicions of you really being an Off-Roader and I think you picked up on this and it makes you nervous and you over react and lash out at me and that only reinforces my first impression
When you said you first showed up at the protest rally I wondered back then what side did you show up for.

You are right I am not an Off-roader I am a Duner and that must not be the same thing. I am nothing like you, so it must be true I am a Duner and you are an Off-roader.

Hey Bob did you go to the protest? Did you volunteer at the SSSS? Did you go to the BOD meeting? Tell me BOB what have you done for the ASA or for duning in general? I have had my own cars for about a year and joined the ASA recently to assist in keeping what we do have left to play in open, clean and safe. I stand up and do things other then complain like you appear to do. Since I am newbie tell me Bob what have you done for us Duners?

sbheg

[Brian_A]

If Florida in 2000 or military service is any indication, your side.

Liberals thought is was just fine and dandy that Clinton had NO military service during the Vietnam conflict. Now the fact that Bush served but didn't fight in combat is for some reason an issue.

Bush didn't stand before congress and accuse ALL vets of being war criminals or admit to being a war criminal himself. Kerry should have been hanged for providing aid to the enemy.
Now Kerry stands and says maybe he "exaggerated"

AS for the 2000 election. Who took it to the courts first? It's been counted a dozen times. Bush won.

[sbheg]

If Florida in 2000 or military service is any indication, your side.

Liberals thought is was just fine and dandy that Clinton had NO military service during the Vietnam conflict. Now the fact that Bush served but didn't fight in combat is for some reason an issue.

Bush didn't stand before congress and accuse ALL vets of being war criminals or admit to being a war criminal himself. Kerry should have been hanged for providing aid to the enemy.
Now Kerry stands and says maybe he "exaggerated"

AS for the 2000 election. Who took it to the courts first? It's been counted a dozen times. Bush won.

To be President today in America it appears you have to be a most perfect individual. I do not know of any such people.

I think we should focus on what is truly important and not that, he had inappropriate sex, drunken episodes, drugs, low GPA, avoided the draft, took advantage of open doors, etc.

I want to know can he lead and continue to make this country the best example for others to follow. That is what I look for. IMO

sbheg

[Poiks]

Bush didn't stand before congress and accuse ALL vets of being war criminals or admit to being a war criminal himself.

Neither did Kerry. Check your facts.

[Poiks]

AS for the 2000 election. Who took it to the courts first? It's been counted a dozen times. Bush won.

You missed my point on this. For anyone to claim that one party or the other has a monopoly on sleaze is completely absurd. For every Democrat who has been nailed for ethics issues, I guarantee you I can name a Republican who has, too.

[schraderrl]

Hey Bob did you go to the protest?

Yes

Did you volunteer at the SSSS?

No I did not go to the show this year and I’m not an ASA member
I resigned a long time ago because of their position on fees
I believe the BLM is trying to close all the public land to “intense recreation” and open small fee areas. I don’t like this and hate to see other off-roaders used by the BLM to support their plan.
I hope to meet up with some of you sometime but it won’t be soon if it’s out on the ISDRA because I have decided to do what I can to help the situation out there by staying away for a few years.

Did you go to the BOD meeting?

No


I’ve gone to a few meetings
Costa Mesa and Long Beach ASA meetings
Barstow BLM – DAC Meeting
Long Beach BLM
Protest rally
Buckshot ASA meeting
If you attended the Barstow meeting last year you caught one of my rare appearances,
I went to that meeting to show support for our side, but when the BLM informed us they were going to close Rice Valley dunes because of under usage! Then something snapped in me and I really got ticked off.
I filled out a form to speak, and when called on, stepped up to the microphone and shared with them my feeling about the closures.
I was shaking like a leaf up there, it wasn’t a pretty site, but the worst part followed, a few mouths later when I read that the BLM went ahead and closed Rice Valley.
Check page 126-127
http://www.ca.blm.gov/news/rac/dac/minu ... 292002.pdf
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
CALIFORNIA DESERT DISTRICT ADVISORY COUNCIL
REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
VOLUME II
LOCATION: Barstow College Gymnasium
Barstow, California
DATE AND TIME: Saturday, June 2, 2002
8 a.m. to 3 p.m.
REPORTED BY: JUDITH W. GILLESPIE, CSR, RPR
CSR NO. 3710
JOB NO.: 59259JG

16 CHAIRMAN KEMPER: Bob Schrader .
17 MR. SCHRADER: My name is Bob Schrader,
18 S-h-r-a-d-e-r. I would just like to say --
19 CHAIRMAN KEMPER: Bob, let me stop you. You
20 need to talk fairly close to the mike.
21 MR. SCHRADER: Oh, okay.
22 About the fees, right now, about once a year I
23 buy a Forest Adventure Pass and then Off-Road Vehicles State
24 Parks Pass, and then a Golden Eagle Pass to get to the
25 forest, even though it used to be free, the forests. The
386
GILLESPIE REPORTING & DOCUMENT MANAGEMENT, INC.
1 parks you had to pay for, but the forest is free.
2 Now you have to buy a pass to get to the
3 forest. So it's over $100 a year. And on top of that, for
4 Imperial Sand Dune fees. And I think the buffer zone idea,
5 I think that was kind of like where they closed the areas
6 down on the east side of the railroad trucks for the
7 tortoise, supposedly. A lot of people have a suspicion that
8 was just to collect fees so you couldn't ride around, get
9 around it. And I think that's what the buffer zone thing is
10 all about is collecting fees.
11 And I have been to Rice Valley a few times
12 this last year, and I find it kind of a very historical
13 place. And they already have Rice Wilderness right there.
14 And you then have the historical part of the World War II
15 training area right there. So it's already pretty much
16 protected. Just a little area to ride, and it's nice to be
17 able to get in there so you don't have to walk from the
18 highway down to those places to see it.
19 And if there was ever a perfect place for
20 off-roading, it would have to be Imperial Sand Dunes with
21 the canal on one side and the railroad tracks on the other,
22 it's an island, a no-man's land almost. The damage was done
23 when they put those things through. And then you have sand
24 there where no tracks or anything like that. Whatever.
25 People can't say -- but you put enough people
387
GILLESPIE REPORTING & DOCUMENT MANAGEMENT, INC.
1 in a small enough area after closing those things down, and
2 you will start to have damage almost anywhere. So it's
3 getting kind of crazy that people like me kind of have to
4 voice their opinion at the last minute before the last thing
5 is closed down. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN KEMPER: Thank you, Bob.
7 (Applause from the audience.)
I’ll just cut and paste my comments from a meeting in Barstow on June 2, 2002.

I’m a paying member to
AMA
CORVA
NRA (life member)

Here is a story with a little of my early camping history,
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/34 ... 8850c.html

[Brian_A]

Fortunately I didn't have to get the facts from a biased new story. In the case of Kerry's presentation to Congress, they have a tape. Watched it. Kerry most definitely DID make the accusations.

For every Democrat who has been nailed for ethics issues, I guarantee you I can name a Republican who has, too.

Granted. I would never say one side had a monopoly a sleaze or slander. I do see a bit more manipulation from the left however. Again Not a monopoly, but some crazy stuff that people just seem to eat up. I see them from the right as well, they just appear a bit more subtle to me.

Since this forum is based upon the sand I leave it at this
Kerry = closures

For some it's just about a hobby. For me, it's about personal freedom.

[LoBuck]

6 CHAIRMAN KEMPER: Thank you, Bob.
7 (Applause from the audience.)

=D> atta boy Bob

[schraderrl]

You have yourself to blame for this. You are the one that mentioned the PM and then asked most of your question on the bbs anyhow. So you made it public, showing you could care less about the content of the PM being private.

Your answer and reasoning is so banal and oblique it’s beyond belief

What side is desperate and has a problem with honor, pride and integrity?
Nixon got impeached – He resigned
Clinton got impeached – He did not step down

Newt Gingrich – reprimanded for ethics resigned
Alan Cranston – reprimanded for ethics would not step down

See a pattern here?

You liberals aren’t getting it so I’ll spell it out for you
When a republican is found guilty of a crime he steps down in dishonor to his country
When a democrat is found guilty of a crime he disregards and shrugs off the guilty verdict as to say, “I am above the law! I will not step down”

I could see you complaining about your unemployment running out or other services that the liberals have but in place for you to take advantage of.

My pride would never allow myself to apply or accept unemployment services

Do you even research your statements?
With out anything to back up my statement up;
I admit I have nothing to base that on except my perception of you from reading your post.

Why must conservatives prove everything and liberals are held unaccountable?
Honor

[Poiks]

You liberals aren’t getting it so I’ll spell it out for you
When a republican is found guilty of a crime he steps down in dishonor to his country
When a democrat is found guilty of a crime he disregards and shrugs off the guilty verdict as to say, “I am above the law! I will not step down”

Bob, neither Clinton nor Nixon was found guilty.

Clinton was tried by the Senate and found not guilty.
Nixon resigned before being impeached, before the house ever voted on it.

There were two impeachment articles against Clinton:
1. Perjury. Not guilty, 55 to 45
2. Obstruction of justice. Not guilty, 50 to 50.

What you seem to be suggesting is that every president who is impeached should resign without trial. This would, in effect, allow the house of representatives to overturn an election at will.

[polaris2]

Clinton lied nobody died.
Bush lied and thousands have died.

Just where are the re-opened dunes at the ISDA from your boy Bush.
I feel lucky to have been able to ride all of the closed areas. Well worth the 1200 mile one-way trip. We duners have science on our side and are not able to get them reopened. Maybe when we have a president that believes in science we can prevail.

[Rekd]

...
Bush lied and thousands have died.
...

What EXACTALLY did Shrub lie about?