Government Healt Care

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Government Healt Care

Post by HSSC »

Does anyone really think our people in Washington can run the health care system. We all know somethings need to be fixed, but most of the problems with health care are because of the people in Washington.

My family doctor had to give up the ship and join a group because his insurance costs were going up and he had had enough.

The lawyers support the Democrats and they are one of the major factors for the increasing costs of health care.

Now I know many of you out there have ideas. Here is one of mine that I have barrowed. If you file a lawsuit, the loser pays all costs associated with the lawsuit.

It is kind of like these lawsuits against the Yamaha Rhino. This is not the fault of the lawyers, but the way I see it, it is the courts that allow these kind of lawsuits and the politicans are at fault for putting these judges in their seats.

AKA the closure of 49,000 acres of some of the finest dunning in the United States.
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Sandcock »

I THINK there is a deeper motive than the Dems actually wanting to take care of all Americans through a government ran system. The motive is how to rid themselves of the Pubs and a two party system. The answer is to shut off the flow of money, i.e. donations, to the Pubs. It is a fact that the Dems despise the healthcare insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Why would this be? Because they support the Pubs and not them. Go after the corporations, shut off the money, and we win :shock: Then the real control of America begins. This fight is about the future freedoms of our country, make no mistake about it.

The true American patriots are standing up to this tyranny :wink:
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by gelwell »

Sandcock wrote:I THINK there is a deeper motive than the Dems actually wanting to take care of all Americans through a government ran system. The motive is how to rid themselves of the Pubs and a two party system. The answer is to shut off the flow of money, i.e. donations, to the Pubs. It is a fact that the Dems despise the healthcare insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Why would this be? Because they support the Pubs and not them. Go after the corporations, shut off the money, and we win :shock: Then the real control of America begins. This fight is about the future freedoms of our country, make no mistake about it.

The true American patriots are standing up to this tyranny :wink:
Amen brother
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Mudkattgowfo »

don't remember who said it but -

"Power Corrupts and Absolute Power corrupts Absolutly" :^o

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by GlamisSandDuner »

A friend sent me this off of youtube, I found it pretty interesting. Ronald Reagan recorded this back in 1961..........

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by GlamisSandDuner »

If you want the full version of the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem- ... L&index=26
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by FunRunner »

Government run health care will give the gov. choice over who gets treatment and in what time frame....so, if you don't fit the profile of the preferred recipient, you could be spun through a maze of paperwork and futility that will leave you w/o a voice in your preference of
treatment and/or professional health providers/doctors, etc....it would lead to a system where gov would realistically have control of our lives, and ie, our welfare and finances....I agree with sandcock, there is no remedy of the health care shortcomings in the current sweeping proposals by the O Group.....with them healthcare will become tantamount to a Rod Serling mind boggler mystery w/o a clear path for a satisfactory treatment remedy....be afraid, be very afraid is a correct analysis....and on top of all the rhetoric, the financials being presented, have no basis of factual merit, but are postulated on fictitious meanderings of some of the very people who were largely visible in the beginning of the current financial debacle.... :evil:

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by FunRunner »

Here's some interesting observations, which I have not researched, but which I've read various versions of in recent e-mails from a number of sources....This would be of particular interest to seniors, but that would eventually mean everyone, as we all are either there, will be there soon, or hopefully, someday....what will we have to look forward to?
This is part of Obama's Health Plan:




(These quotes add new context to the "End-of-Life" Counseling sessions required every 5 years for all seniors over 65 in Obama Care.)


"There is a widespread perception that the United States spends an excessive amount on high-technology health care for dying patients. Many commentators note that 27 to 30 percent of the Medicare budget is spent on the 5 percent of Medicare patients who die each year. They also note that the expenditures increase exponentially as death approaches, so that the last month of life accounts for 30 to 40 percent of the medical care expenditures in the last year of life. To many, savings from reduced use of expensive technological interventions at the end of life are both necessary and desirable."

"Many have linked the effort to reduce the high cost of death with the legalization of physician-assisted suicide. One commentator observed: "Managed care and managed death [through physician-assisted suicide] are less expensive than fee-for-service care and extended survival. Less expensive is better." Some of the amicus curiae briefs submitted to the Supreme Court expressed the same logic: "Decreasing availability and increasing expense in health care and the uncertain impact of managed care may intensify pressure to choose physician-assisted suicide" and "the cost effectiveness of hastened death is as undeniable as gravity. The earlier a patient dies, the less costly is his or her care."

"Although the cost savings to the United States and most managed-care plans are likely to be small, it is important to recognize that the savings to specific terminally ill patients and their families could be substantial. For many patients and their families, especially but not exclusively those without health insurance, the costs of terminal care may result in large out-of-pocket expenses. Nevertheless, as compared with the average American, the terminally ill are less likely to be uninsured, since more than two thirds of decedents are Medicare beneficiaries over 65 years of age. The poorest dying patients are likely to be Medicaid beneficiaries. Extrapolating from the Medicare data, one can calculate that a typical uninsured patient, by dying one month earlier by means of physician-assisted suicide, might save his or her family $10,000 in health care costs, having already spent as much as $20,000 in that year."

"Drawing on data from the Netherlands on the use of euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide and on available U.S. data on costs at the end of life, this analysis explores the degree to which the legalization of physician-assisted suicide might reduce health care costs. The most reasonable estimate is a savings of $627 million, less than 0.07 percent of total health care expenditures."

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Astro »

SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:

Sorry I had a nightmare :oops:

Seriously fix the system. Don't just put everyone on a broken system that is already failing [-X They don't want to fix Healthcare they want another huge entitlment program :^o How did it go from Healthcare reform to Health Insurance reform :idea:

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by FunRunner »

Astro wrote:SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:

Sorry I had a nightmare :oops:

Seriously fix the system. Don't just put everyone on a broken system that is already failing [-X They don't want to fix Healthcare they want another huge entitlment program :^o How did it go from Healthcare reform to Health Insurance reform :idea:

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by BHenry »

Can you say Carousel?

That's a scary proposition to legally mandate physician assisted suicide. Yet another loss of individual freedoms for the "collective" good (no where have I heard that before...?)
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by FunRunner »

Within society, we have Natural Law. These are laws for the common good and generally ones understood by the majority of civilization. Laws that are enacted, but that go against Natural Law, are incongruous with the common good of all, and should therefore, be void; but we all know how that goes.
The one thing that stands out in all the health care issue is, whatever the representatives in Congress and the Senate propose and vote on, they should be willing to accept the consequences of their vote. Are they not the representatives of the people, for the good of the people? are they also part of the populance? why then, should they have special priveleges accorded them? what's good enough for the goose, is good enough for the gander. Mr. Senator/Congressman, you wan't this enacted, you must be willing to abide by it's terms for All of us; there should be no special or separate care system for people who are in actuality, employees of the society they represent. That would be like me hiring you to manage certain aspects of my business, and then you separately, set up a priveleged level of care and maintenance for those in your fold, but I end up having to forge for myself through my own efforts; worse yet, with the government between my efforts and my provider of choice, I wouldn't even have the freedom of making that choice.....you gotta be kidding me :roll:
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Sandcock »

So, is Rhambo Deadfish's strategy now to dupe the American public into believing government-run insurance program is off the table and then resurrect it after the "Mob" calms down :^o :?:

The "O" Administration is a bunch of decietful :^o..............and the Dem leadership is nugatory.
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by gelwell »

Sandcock wrote:So, is Rhambo Deadfish's strategy now to dupe the American public into believing government-run insurance program is off the table and then resurrect it after the "Mob" calms down :^o :?:

The "O" Administration is a bunch of decietful :^o..............and the Dem leadership is nugatory.
Deceitful absolutely check this out and I firmly believe this is happening right now in our country:

Words from Dr. Krauthammer

Dr. Krauthammer is on Fox News. He is an M.D. and a lawyer and is
paralyzed from the neck down.. A friend went to hear Charles
Krauthammer. He listened with 25 others in a closed room. What he
says here, is NOT 2nd-hand but 1st. The ramifications are staggering
for us, our children and their children.

Last Monday was a profound evening, hearing Dr. Charles Krauthammer
speak to the Center for the American Experiment. He is brilliant
intellectual, seasoned and articulate. He is forthright and careful in
his analysis and never resorts to emotions or personal insults. He is
NOT a fear monger nor an extremist in his comments and views. He is a
fiscal conservative and has received a Pulitzer Prize for writing. He
is a frequent contributor to Fox News and writes weekly for the
Washington Post. The entire room was held spellbound during his talk.
I have summarized his comments, as we are living in uncharted waters
economically and internationally. Even 2 Dems at my table agreed with
everything he said! If you feel like forwarding this to those who are
open minded and have not drunk the Kool-Aid, feel free.

Summary of his comments:

1. Mr. Obama is a very intellectual, charming individual. He is not to
be underestimated. He is a cool customer who doesn't show his
emotions. It's very hard to know what's behind the mask. The taking
down of the Clinton dynasty by a political neophyte was an amazing
accomplishment. The Clintons still do not understand what hit them.
Obama was in the perfect place at the perfect time.

2. Obama has political skills comparable to Reagan and Clinton. He has
a way of making you think he's on your side, agreeing with your
position, while doing the opposite. Pay no attention to what he SAYS;
rather, watch what he DOES!

3. Obama has a ruthless quest for power. He did not come to
Washington to make something out of himself, but rather to change
everything, including dismantling capitalism. He can’t be
straightforward on his ambitions, as the public would not go along.
He has a heavy hand, and wants to level the playing field with income
redistribution and punishment to the achievers of society. He would
like to model the USA to Great Britain or Canada .

4. His three main goals are to control ENERGY, PUBLIC EDUCATION and
NATIONAL HEALTHCARE by the Federal government. He doesn't care about
the auto or financial services industries, but got them as an early
bonus. The cap and trade will add costs to everything and stifle
growth. Paying for FREE college education is his goal. Most scary is
his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000
people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go
through the roof. The only way to control costs is with massive
RATIONING of services, like in Canada. God forbid!

5. He has surrounded himself with mostly far-left academic types. No
one around him has ever even run a candy store. But they are going to
try and run the auto, financial, banking and other industries.

This obviously can’t work in the long run. Obama is not a socialist;
rather he's a far-left secular progressive bent on nothing short of
revolution. He ran as a moderate, but will govern from the hard left.
Again, watch what he does, not what he says.

6. Obama doesn’t really see himself as President of the United States,
but more as a ruler over the world. He sees himself above it all,
trying to orchestrate and coordinate various countries and their
agendas. He sees moral equivalency in all cultures. His apology tour
in Germany and England was a prime example of how he sees America, as
an imperialist nation that has been arrogant, rather than a great
noble nation that has at times made errors. This is the first
President ever who has chastised our allies and appeased our enemies!

7. He is now handing out goodies. He hopes that the bill (and pain)
will not come due until after he is reelected in 2012. He would like
to blame all problems on Bush from the past, and hopefully his
successor in the future. He has a huge ego and Dr. Krauthammer
believes he is a narcissist.

8. Republicans are in the wilderness for a while, but will emerge
strong. Republicans are pining for another Reagan, but there will
never be another like him. Krauthammer believes Mitt Romney, Tim
Pawlenty & Bobby Jindahl (except for his terrible speech in February)
are the future of the party. Newt Gingrich is brilliant, but has
baggage. Sarah Palin is sincere and intelligent, but needs to really
be seriously boning up on facts and info if she is to be a serious
candidate in the future. We need to return to the party of lower
taxes, smaller government, personal responsibility, strong national
defense and state’s rights.

9. The current level of spending is irresponsible and outrageous. We
are spending trillions that we don’t have. This could lead to
hyperinflation, depression or worse. No country has ever spent
themselves into prosperity. The media is giving Obama, Reid and Pelosi
a pass because they love their agenda. But eventually the bill will
come due and people will realize the huge bailouts didn’t work, nor
will the stimulus package. These were trillion-dollar payoffs to
Obama’s allies, unions and the Congress to placate the left, so he can
get support for #4 above.

10. The election was over in mid-September when Lehman brothers
failed, fear and panic swept in, we had an unpopular President and the
war was grinding on indefinitely without a clear outcome. The people
are in pain, and the mantra of change caused people to act
emotionally. Any Dem would have won this election; it was surprising
it was as close as it was.

11. In 2012, if the unemployment rate is over 10%, Republicans will be
swept back into power. If it's under 8%, the Dems continue to roll.
If it's between 8-10%, it will be a dogfight. It will all be about
the economy. I hope this gets you really thinking about what's
happening in Washington and Congress. There is a left-wing revolution
going on, according to Krauthammer and he encourages us to keep the
faith and join the loyal resistance. The work will be hard, but we’re
right on most issues and can reclaim our country, before it's far too
late.

Do yourself a long term favor, send this to all who will listen to an
intelligent assessment of the big picture. All our futures and
children's futures depend on our good understanding of what is really
going on in D.C. and our action pursuant to that understanding!! It
really IS up to each of us to take individual action!! Start with
educating your friends and neighbors!!!
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Sandcock »

The goal is not negotiable, but the path is :shock: Watch out, they will call it something different, but it is still the same...............deceitfulness [-X
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by RAD4EVER »

:-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by HSSC »

RAD4EVER wrote::-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=
So you are speachless :?: Or where to begin :?:

I think the insurance companies are behind these posts. Don't you :?: Or do you think the government can run health care like the Post Office or Amtrack :?: :roll:

The governmet needs to stick with the Armed Forces, that is the roll of federal government, period. =D>
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Rekd »

HSSC wrote:
RAD4EVER wrote::-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=
So you are speachless :?: Or where to begin :?:
More like "cry me a river".

Rad is a closet liberal.

He's tired of hearing us all ***** about what our ef'd up government is doing.

=D> That's why he has me on ignore. :mrgreen:
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by RocketScientist »

You folks are going to hate me for this……. The best thing that we can do for health care is to socialize it. Furthermore, Americans will protest anything with the word socialize in it, regardless the subject.

Before you jump all over my case, go to another developed nation and get health care first hand and you will see that they provide far better quality than in the US. Both my parents have dodged the bullet because they were misdiagnosed here in the US, but luckily they found competent doctors outside the US. American doctors are typically drug pushers. I’m not saying that drugs are bad. Doctors take the prescribe drugs first and see what happens approach instead of diagnosing the problem first. A perfect example is my great grandmother who was diagnosed with high blood pressure. She was 100 years old and was dumping salt on everything she ate out of habit regardless of how salty the food was. Guess what, the doctor prescribed a medicine to lower her blood pressure instead of finding out why her blood pressure was high. Seriously, this should be healthcare 101. She was already loopy from taking a mountain of prescriptions. We replaced her saltine crackers with low sodium ones and replaced the salt in the salt shaker with salt substitute. Blood pressure solved. Doctors in other developed nations think our doctors are quacks.

Again, before you jump all over my case, go find out for yourself that the people of the US already spend some of the highest health care costs in the world. This not based off of size, but wealth. There are plenty of research and articles out there that compare the cost of health care with the wealth of a country. This type of study takes in account of population and what we spend on and shows how much of the spending goes towards health care. Considering how much we spend on heath care and how little and how poor the quality is, we are getting ripped off.

Here is an example of how broken our system is. Every time I damage myself in the dunes, I go to the hospital emergency room. I show my insurance card and fill out a form that states I am ultimately responsible for the charges. After I pay my co-pay, I get billed 5 times as much for the visit because I have to pay for the last 4-5 people that didn’t have insurance. The hospital must do this or they will not afford to stay open. As normal business practice, the insurance company will NOT pay the hospital bill in the hope that I will pay it or it will go to collections against my credit. After many months of frustrating phone calls back and forth between the insurance company and the hospital and my credit goes to hell, the hospital and the insurance company negotiate and settle on a reduced bill. I already pay high health insurance premiums and I wouldn’t be able to afford it if my company wasn’t flipping the bill for a major portion of the insurance plan.

Ultimately, those of us that have health care are already paying for everyone else. The system is already socialized as far as spending is concerned.

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Rekd »

RocketScientist wrote:You folks are going to hate me for this……. The best thing that we can do for health care is to socialize it. Furthermore, Americans will protest anything with the word socialize in it, regardless the subject.
"Socialized" is not the problem with me. The problem I have with this asinine idea is who's going to be ruining it.

Have you seen what they've done to social security, medicaid/medicare, the USPS, fanny and freddy, the CARS program, the so-called bail-out, the borders, the federal parks, etc etc etc etc etc.... do I really need to provide more examples of how they have ef'd up just about everything they've tried to control, including many aspects of the military.

Yes, the US has world class health-care. Yes, there are problems, mostly involving litigation brought on by hungry lawyers, the same ones running the country now.

ANY real health-care reform HAS to start with tort reform. Period. And allowing the government to control it (because, well, you can't sue the government very well) is not the answer. They will quickly and efficiently find a way to make it much worse than it is.
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by RocketScientist »

Running healthcare and paying for healthcare is two different things. Yes, the government will do a lousy job at administrating the task, but at least I wouldn't have to fight my insurance company every time. I pay a bunch of money for health care because other people don't pay for health care. Let's even out the burden. I don't think the quality of health care can get any worse than it is now. Keep in mind that in our current system, the insurance company can decide that a treatment that could save your life is not warrented and they will not pay for it. They make decisions every day if people live or die (not the hospital). You will be singing a different tune if you were in that situation.

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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Rekd »

RocketScientist wrote:Running healthcare and paying for healthcare is two different things. Yes, the government will do a lousy job at administrating the task, but at least I wouldn't have to fight my insurance company every time. I pay a bunch of money for health care because other people don't pay for health care. Let's even out the burden. I don't think the quality of health care can get any worse than it is now. Keep in mind that in our current system, the insurance company can decide that a treatment that could save your life is not warrented and they will not pay for it. They make decisions every day if people live or die (not the hospital). You will be singing a different tune if you were in that situation.
Yeah, it can get A LOT worse. Right now we've got hungry lawyers running the show. The current plan gives them more power and people less recourse if they need to take action against the "provider". i.e. the government.

Helping people that need help and forcing me to swallow their ef'd up policies is two different things. They could a) stop giving any kind of aid or work to illegals, b) help the people that need help, c) put the lazy bastards to work or get them off the public dole and d) tort reform.

Again, tort reform is mandatory. The current plan doesn't limit it, it expands it.
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by ddjthomas »

RocketScientist wrote:Running healthcare and paying for healthcare is two different things. Yes, the government will do a lousy job at administrating the task, but at least I wouldn't have to fight my insurance company every time. I pay a bunch of money for health care because other people don't pay for health care. Let's even out the burden. I don't think the quality of health care can get any worse than it is now. Keep in mind that in our current system, the insurance company can decide that a treatment that could save your life is not warrented and they will not pay for it. They make decisions every day if people live or die (not the hospital). You will be singing a different tune if you were in that situation.
I served in the military for 8 years. I was mis-diagnosed with cancer for 6 months of complaining to my doctors, I had 3 pounds of tumors removed once they finaly figured it out. My father in law died from a brain tumor on active duty after being mis-diagnosed and the mis-treated. If either of us were civilians our families would be taken care of for the rest of their lives. Instead I am just a working stiff who can't get insurance on my own (employer sponsered insurance is different) and my mother in law is a working poor woman who has gone bankrupt trying to raise 3 daughters without any job skills.

Your screen name suggests you should be a smart person. If you think the government is going to run healthcare any better when they can not be sued you are an idiot! I think there should be resonable limitls set for liability but when the government is immune to lawsuits it just screws up more than anything.
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Rekd »

This is from Gary, a friend of mine in Burbank. We're discussing this at another forum.

Just want to pass along my personal experience with a government-run bureaucracy. In 2002, the VA had me apply for benefits regarding my exposure to Agent Orange during my combat tour in Vietnam in 1967. The VA found that my diabetes type 2 was DIRECTLY related to the defolient Agent Orange. I received 30% disability benefits at that time. In late 2003, I lost the sight in my right eye-diabetic retinopathy, type 2 diabetes-DIRECTLY related to exposure to AO. After numerous surgeries to try to correct the problem, the doctors could do no more for me. So I re-applied to the VA with regards to the loss of sight in that eye. Guess what? The VA took away ALL my benefits because in looking over my records, they said I was TYPE 1. I was never diagnosed as type 1, EVER! The VA asked for all my medical records back to my original diagnosis in 1974. Every bit of paperwork showed TYPE 2! Now I know the VA will ONLY give benefits for TYPE 2 ONLY, NEVER TYPE1. That I understood at the very beginning. They still said NO benefits because I had checked TYPE 1 on one of their questionaires. None of the papers I have shows ANY questionaire marked as TYPE 1!

My next step was to go to the disabled vets advocate- Disabled American Veterans. They became my voice against the VA. ALL the paperwork was gathered since 1974-all doctors, labs AND VA paperwork. No TYPE 1 shown ANYWHERE! Bottom line to this story is that in 2005, I was finally approved for 100% Disability!

The VA is the prime example of a government panel overseeing your health and medical problems. That is what the public option will be for this country if the dems and Nobama get this stuff passed! Just speaking from my own experience!
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by Dunepilot »

Let me get this straight...

Obama's health care plan will:
Be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it.
Be passed by a Congress that hasn't read it (but exempts themselves from it).
Be signed by a president who smokes (and also hasn't read it).
Have funding administered by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes.
Be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese.
Be financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by HSSC »

Dunepilot wrote:Let me get this straight...

Obama's health care plan will:
Be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it.
Be passed by a Congress that hasn't read it (but exempts themselves from it).
Be signed by a president who smokes (and also hasn't read it).
Have funding administered by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes.
Be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese.
Be financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?
:lol: Well nothing. :^o
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Re: Government Healt Care

Post by gelwell »

What do you mean broke? We've been broke for some time its called a deficit. We have been in deficit spending for decades and has come to haunt us. China is the latest to fund us. In the 80's it was the Japenese. The chinese will cut us off soon but we are a big trading partner is the only reason they are funding us. Because they are essentially getting back their own money during the trading process.
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