Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

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Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

I just called my representative & told her office I wanted her to Vote NO on the current healthcare bill [-X

I don't Remember when I've actually called a Representative or Senators' office :?: , but I thought this was important :shock: They need to get out of this we know what's best & we have to do something now legislation style [-X :^o #-o Both Parties are guilty of trying to make the other look bad at the expense of doing the right thing for our country :evil: The bill they have today isn't the right thing for our country [-X They need to work it out rather than passing a bill just to pass some kind of health care reform & say we did it #-o

We need real healthcare reform =D> Tell your representative to VOTE NO on todays bill & get back to work on a REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL =D> =D> =D>

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by RAD4EVER »

Funny, I'm sending out "Yes" to pass the Bill.
Who am I sending to? One may ask? Just about everyone who needs it before they go under losing everything they have gained.
You and your friends and all the families concerned, are sure lucky to have unlimited resource's not to wish a better health system than the one in place?
For the past 8 years nothing was done and now the Pubs have a better plan?
Didn't bother to have one than! They have one now?
I know they don't!

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by valen76 »

Wow, now what a coincidence on my last post in reference to guns in camp. Now I see. We currently have the best healthcare in the world and you want government to mess it up? I have government health care and it is pretty crappy. I don't have the same care that the President and Nancy Pelosi have and neither will you! Oh if this passes you will see how much "better" it is and it is still no going to cover much more people than are covered now and will cost trillions of $ to do so.....and the government is in debt and how are we going to pay for it? How about you and everybody who votes yes pays for it! YOU can keep the "change", I'll keep my guns, the little money I make protecting this country, and my freedom.

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

Don't have unlimited resources :shock: My wife's company dropped healthcare to cut costs, fortunatly my company has health care. [-o< My company cut our hours to 32 hours per week as a cost saving measure, fortunately my wife is still working full-time. [-o<

Parents & Inlaws on Medicare :| My Father In Laws' last visit to the hospital shows how government run health care won't fix things #-o Sure they need to regulate insurance to make it better, but they keep forgetting that part of the high cost of insurance is because health care is so expensive. Rates couldn't be so high if health care costs were more reasonable :roll: Fix it right :!: Don't pass another bill just to say we did it & try to make the other party look bad :P Take the 5% on the far right & the 5% on the far left out of the equation & you could pass a good health care bill tomorrow :D The Democrats & Republicans are both guilty of partisan politics rather than doing what good for the country :evil:

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by valen76 »

Yeah this whole situation is a mess. It would be nice to cover everybody but there is no way to do so. I think leaving it alone at this point is the right thing to do. We don't have the money to pay for it. Maybe if we were not in Iraq and Afghanistan there might be more money. Of course they always say a war boosts the economy....but i kind of doubt that seems like it only drives up the cost of oil. Let the government figure out Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and the other hot one immigration then lets work on healthcare.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

I'm all for cutting waste :evil: , fraud :twisted: , and getting more qualified Doctors :D etc..., but the current bill seems to just demonize the insurance companies while holding all the other parties blamless :roll: . I don't know why so many people see government provided entitlements as free :?: Especially in this BBS group :shock: Don't you think a private company could provided better sevices with the funding & fees the government uses for the ISDRA :? I think health care reform would go the same way...worse service for more money overall :oops: The government should set the rules & let the free market take care of business :shock: I don't know it's all bad & I don't know how we can fix it with a bunch of lawyers, and career politicians in charge :^o If the health care plan is so great eveyone who wants to pass it should leave the congressional health coverage and go to the public option themselves :P

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

The House passed the $1.2 trillion health care plan by a 220 to 215 vote. Thirty-nine Democrats voted against it, as did every Republican except for Joseph Cao of Louisiana.

I guess the House Dems are more afraid of Pelosi than their constituents. Is 2010 here yet :?:
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by valen76 »

Sandcock wrote:I guess the House Dems are more afraid of Pelosi than their constituents. Is 2010 here yet :?:

She looks kind of scary! :oops: I hope this thing gets blocked in the Senate.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

I hope it got better before it passed [-o< I don't know if it has to still reconcile with the Senate Bill or what legislative path it take to the Presidents' desk :?: I think it's partisan politics @ it's worst [-X The Democrats want so bad to say We did it & the Republicans didn't that the Democrats don't really care if what they did was the right thing to do #-o We need a 3rd party to run the country for us & let the Democrat Politicians & Republican Polititions Rot :P Notice I said the politicians :shock: The Republican & Democratic constituents are @ the mercy of the 2 party system with no other real choice :oops:

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by RAD4EVER »

Astro wrote:I hope it got better before it passed [-o< I don't know if it has to still reconcile with the Senate Bill or what legislative path it take to the Presidents' desk :?: I think it's partisan politics @ it's worst [-X The Democrats want so bad to say We did it & the Republicans didn't that the Democrats don't really care if what they did was the right thing to do #-o We need a 3rd party to run the country for us & let the Democrat Politicians & Republican Polititions Rot :P Notice I said the politicians :shock: The Republican & Democratic constituents are @ the mercy of the 2 party system with no other real choice :oops:

Astro 8)
Dude.....we been trying for 55 years?
It gonna happen.
It's a Trillion $ business that's been in place for sucking the life out of "The People" for years? Now, it just might as well come our way!
We as a Nation need a better Health Plan than what we have now.
Better than sending it outside our Country.

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

Dude.....we been trying for 55 years?
Since FDR. At least When LBJ was putting the Great Society together he had Republican involvement. I don't think people realize how powerful Pelosi is and it is truly scary. She wouldn't have put the bill up for vote if she didn't expect the votes.

In regards to a third party...........I believe that we need more parties, i.e. a Blue Dog Party, Conservative Party. That way you won't have a Pelosi strong arming the Reps because they do not answer to her.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by HSSC »

Astro wrote:I hope it got better before it passed [-o< I don't know if it has to still reconcile with the Senate Bill or what legislative path it take to the Presidents' desk :?: I think it's partisan politics @ it's worst [-X The Democrats want so bad to say We did it & the Republicans didn't that the Democrats don't really care if what they did was the right thing to do #-o We need a 3rd party to run the country for us & let the Democrat Politicians & Republican Polititions Rot :P Notice I said the politicians :shock: The Republican & Democratic constituents are @ the mercy of the 2 party system with no other real choice :oops:

Astro 8)
Well there is another party called the Libertarian Party, which is farther to the right on most issues than the Republican Party. Which is alright in my book.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

STALL!!! Ya I'll jump back in the polital stuff again. I'm bored but I also have questions. Ya I haven't exactly made up my mind yet and I like it that way.

Besides costing a bunch what are the "bad things" with this piticular bill?
Does it really change any health care coverage we currently have?
And my opinion on the government vs private. I know I wouldn't want to deal with a privateized DMV. Sure we get lazy people at the offices now but could you imaginge how rushed you'd be by someone who had a quota to get thru each day? Are you happy with the support help you get from computer, Cable, phone, etc help desks? I know when it comes to Cable they seem to think they're the only game in town. I've been dealing with the phone company for years now. Our phone STILL gets messed up when it rains. Ever try to scedule an appointment for a rainy day? No they get out when they get out. They say its fine and move on.

I don't really think its a question of Government Vs Private. I think Customer service in general needs an overhaul. When I think of an enjoyable "service" I think of Police. Imagine you get your wallet lifted at the mall. You gonna be happier with the Mall Cop (Private) Or local police (Public)?

I have Kaiser. I've just been patched, never fixed. I know there is a lot I have to do to keep me healthier. I know the people at Kaiser just do what their higher up are telling them to do. Sometimes I get in quick. Sometimes it takes a while. For urgent stuff I get in right away.

At Pomona I was talking to a guy from Canada. He seemed very happy with his health plan. I asked him how many people he knew that died because they were waiting for a procedure. He laughed and said none.

This bill they're trying to get through wouldn't even come close to the full socialized medicine of other countries. What DOES it do? I don't know. Once I do know I bet it'll be too late to do anything about. I do know, that all I have heard about it is hype, both good and bad. I know I really cant trust people like Polosi who are trying to push it. Thats another thing. Its this sessions health care bill. Obama is just its chearleader. Ya he'll sign it, but its really the legislators bill.

As of now its stalled anyway with the left fighting over abortion. :-s OK. :-k So we still don't have a final version. Still A lot to learn on it BEFORE I can make up my mind. I Don't get the hate, its almost like people want this president/ session/country to fail.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Washroad »

I do think "private" v. "public" is a better option. The DMV? Really, could be better which is why I take care of a lot of stuff at my AAA office. Nice people, eager to help, gets it done quickly.

I have insurance (don't know for how much longer though). It's a HMO, liked the PPO better, but I still get to see the doctor I have had for several years. My cost is low. Very few forms to fill out.

The bill passed the house. At this point, I believe, the senate will need to pass a bill. The vote may not come until late December, maybe even January. Demos do have votes to stop filibuster, but many are not on-board with the current bill.

If senate passes bill, then both houses will have to get together and "reconcile" the bills together. Then they need to be voted on again.

Once all that happens, then the rockstarmessiah can sign it.

At $1.2 trillion, it's over the cost he was asking for. Then again, the rockstarmessiah is such a ****ing liar, he'll sign it even though he pledged not to sign a bill that "added one dime to the deficit."

I know people from Canada, jeez, my wife is Canadian. Yeah, it's all free up there, but the amount of taxes people up there pay is enough to make me cringe. I look at my check now, 30% (well, more like 35% now thanks to the California govmint) is gone before I see it at all. With this health-care bill, my check will lose even more....
and it's not as good as you think...
You have to wait a very long time for most procedures, years even, which is why many Canadians are coming over here for surgery, which is why there are many clinics springing up in Canada that are "private" and helping people get things done. The Canadian govmint isn't too happy about it either.

A very good friend of mine works in health insurance. I asked what will happen if this bill passes all the way. She said EVERYONE will pay more for insurance.

Those of us that don't want insurance (like Christian Scientists) will have to pay a fine because of it. They don't use health care at all, but they will be forced to help fund the new ****ing buearocacy the govmint will install, and they will be forced to pay for all the illegal aliens health care (wtf, we're already doing that now, but it will get much more blantant than ever!). That isn't right.

I'm very angry about this. I'm being forced to do something (again) that I don't think is right. I'm not a stingy person, but my contributions to the charities I make now will be adjusted if this bill passes.

I hate the government we have now. Worse than it's ever been and it's never been worth much more than a bucket of warm piss.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Washroad »

At this time, passing a bill like this is so ****ing out-of-line.

The economy is in the tank. It's not going to come out very soon. The govmint help will keep it down there, wallowing in agony.

The private sector is running out of work, money, jobs. Who do you think pays for the government?? It's not government workers, congress. It's the private sector!

We're going broke, fast.

The company I have been working at for the last 18 years just lost another contract. That means we are going to have to let go of 16 people. That's 16 more people from the private sector that won't be making any money and paying taxes to fund the ****ing government.

Think about it for just a ******-****ing second.

We cannot afford this health-care bill. Period.

Screw the government. Screw congress and all it's members.

A bit pissy here. So what?
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Cool.

We've got not only ONE, but TWO socialist supporters here at the ASA! Are you BOTH paying members? Just curious how far you'll take it, that's all. =D>

I've known for years, but just wanted to re-emphasize my position since both socialist supporters piped up in the same thread supporting an obviously socialist take-over of another 1/6 of our economy.
Besides costing a bunch what are the "bad things" with this piticular bill?
Once the government controls healthcare, they will control EVERYTHING you do that affects... YOUR HEALTH. Duh. It's the biggest no-brainer in the history of man-kind. Ignorance is bliss.

Good job, socialist supporters! =D>
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

In my opinion, passing of healthcare is a huge step in government control of everything. Remove all private sector corps and you control the flow of money, which is directly attached to power. In other words, if the dems can pull this off, to include tax and trade, and the climate bill, the opposing political party will be diminsihed and there will no longer be a voice of the people. Basically, a big loss of freedom for the middle class.

Pelosi is orignally from Baltimore. Her father controlled Baltimore, i.e. who did and did not get elected into office. She learned what she does from her old man. She does it well. Beware of what is next. Hopefully, the Blue Dogs will make a difference in the Senate to at least water this thing down. It would be nice if it was killed :!:

btw, sloppy, you ain't no dummy................you know where you stand.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

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I just love how efficient the Federal govenment spends other peoples money. #-o
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

Sandcock wrote: btw, sloppy, you ain't no dummy................you know where you stand.
Seriously dude, I DO NOT know where I stand on this. I know it costs a shiz load of money to cover people who don't have coverage and I know insurance compinies ream those who need it most OR just deny them all together. I also know they're asking the people to pay for a plan they (we americans) can't afford, and alot of people don't want, and only does a half arse job of what the other people DO want.

I almost think just "fixing" the economy would solve alot of this. If people had jobs we could afford health care. But then again this has been an issue through the best times and booms in this country and heath care still is what it is today. Hell what do I know what will work? I would really just like to know the facts without hearing the doom and gloom from one side and lies from the other.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

We are all infinitely different. Some have all the ingredients to become millionaires, some are yuppies, most are hard working middle class, some stuggle to make ends meet, and some basically will always be poor. A high percentage of all of the above are a direct result of the choices we make in life.

So, I think that those that will always be poor and to some extent to those that struggle, there should be some kind of government assistance. For the most part, those people will not ever be able to lift themselves out of the hole that they are in no matter how hard they work.

In regards to the 46-47 million, a vast majority choose to not spend their money on healthcare, i.e. the young working people. Additionally, there are illegal immigrants that are in this 46-47 million that are and will continue to recieve healthcare. The tax paying American public should not be forced to subsidize both groups of people through our taxes. However, in the House bill it is my understanding that those that choose not to buy healthcare can be fined and imprisoned. I'm sure both groups don't want to buy insurance or they would be doing that now. So, has the government thought about all the legal ramifications this will cause when these people try to evade the government mandate:?: More of our taxpayer money :shock:

It has also been reported that there are not enough doctors and nurses to handle the healthcare mandate. What kind of care when this bill goes into full implementation :?:

If you lose your Kiezer HMO and are forced into the government option are you prepared to accept rationing :?: Are you prepared to basically hear that your life is not as vaulable as someone elses, and therefore be denied a procedure or care :?:

The government screws things up and will screw this up too. The end loser will be those in the middle class because we will get an inferior product that costs us a lot. The wealthy, which includes all of Congress, will manage to work the system and not be affected. The poor and the less fortunate most likely get a better product than they are getting now, but who knows.

btw, sloppy, the gov says you are fat and you have to pay more on your premium for being so. Government control of your life.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Sandcock wrote:The wealthy, which includes all of Congress, will manage to work the system and not be affected.
Last I heard, our peerless leaders in Government are going to be exempt from this treachery.
Sandcock wrote:btw, sloppy, the gov says you are fat and you have to pay more on your premium for being so. They've limited your credit card so you can only buy tofu and vegies. They've set the On Star in your car to shut down after 10,000 miles a year because you're spending too much time behind the wheel and it's making you fatter. They've decided that, because you're so fat, you can't react as quickly as a thin person so they've set your car's max speed to 55mph. They've disabled your OHVs because they're not healthy if you get in a crash. Government control of your life.
fissed. :D

As I said earlier... when the government controls healthcare, they will control everything that relates to your health.

Meaning: Everything. Including your eating, how you keep your home, how you recreate, what you can buy in stores, what, where and when you can drive.

E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G.

The level of ignorance by some here is quite shocking. If it's ignorance at all. :mrgreen:

Yeah, give the schmucks total control of our lives... that's the smart thing to do. :twak:
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

OMG :shock: On Fox news the guy filling in for Glenn Beck said they(the government) are going to assign "in-home techs" to "at risk" pacients to monitor their life style choices. Hugh E Recton (D-South Dakota) is calling for gay activities to be one of the things added into the bill to be recomended as cause for "excusal" from the public plan. :evil:

I am Sooo against this now. I see what you guys mean
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

To be honest sloppy, this bill increased in its final few days before it was voted on in the House. There is such a hodge podge of stuff in it that it will be days/weeks before anyone really knows the gravity of what is in it and how it will affect us. Pelosi did not give the lawmakers the 72 hours to review it before it was put up for vote. Just shameful politics from the politicians that we elect and put our trust in to represent us.

A good analogy of what is to come is the closure of the northern dunes, then a little more, and they are after more..............or you have a choice, you can keep your private healthcare provider or choose the government option, but if you lose your private insurance you are mandated to accept the government option.

Also, what if the government undercuts the private insurance companies and causes them to go into the red and out of business. What choice is that :?:

Sounds like a government mandate :shock:
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Mudkattgowfo »

I just feel sorry for my grandchildren's grandchildren who will be born in to servitude to pay these bills. So Sad :roll:


As to the illlegal status people, they need to be shipped home, cheapest way possible, and let them get care there. 8)

In 2010 vote all the bums currently in office out and cut off benefits to them so they get to be regular people and not the Congress Elite.


Finally I really don't care if any of you agree or disagree with me as this is my opinion and I do pay ASA dues and I Vote.

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

:shock: Now they're saying per pill perscriptions will save 1,8 billion over 5 years. Just because most people don't finish their whole run of antibiotics doesn't mean you should sell each pill individualy ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

I should have been on top of this a lot sooner. If I knew this I could have called my representitive and stopped this bill in its tracks.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

Healthcare's Broke & it needs to be fixed :shock: Demonizing the insurance companies won't fix the problem #-o I don't know why Pelosi, Reed & Obama's administration thinks they need to run everything to fix it :? The U.S. Government always takes longer, cost more, & gets poorer results than private business :roll: If they weren't The Government & couldn't print thier own money they would have been out of business a longtime ago :evil: The job of Good Government is to make & enforce laws to proctect the people & stay out of the way of legitamate business =D> When they get into business they squeeze out real competition , the service gets worse & the real cost goes up [-X

The 2 party system issue I was refering to is that the Democrats & Republicans have such a monopoly on political power that independents & other parties don't seem to have a chance :P I'm a Democrat, That being said I vote for the person not the party, McCain in the last election :|

Pelosi, & Reed make me embrassed to be a Democrat :oops: They should start thier own party called the Socialist Entitlement Government Take Over Party. I don't think the SEGTOPs would get many votes, but I could be wrong :idea:

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by MattV »

That's one of the things I really don't like about the whole health care debate. It does not need to be an all or nothing proposition, and there has to be a way to encourage people to VOLUNTARILY obtain coverage through financial incentive, as opposed to doing it by threatening people with 5 years in federal prison. Not to mention, that if I don't wish to purchase insurance, that's my call, not Nancy Pelosi's.

The plan approved by the US House would cost me about $15,000 per year. That's about 3 times what my employer and I currently pay together.

Ideally, I would also like to see a system that doesn't require people to subsidize the insurance (or anything else) of others for an indefinite period. I can understand that people fall on hard times, but hard times, for the most part, are temporary. My proposition would be a maximum of consecutive 5 years for any kind of taxpayer funded assistance, with the amount decreasing every year after the second year and cut in half for each additional child conceived after getting on the program. A 7 year lifetime cap would also be appropriate. This may seem harsh, but most of the circumstances people find themselves in do not happen by accident. And when bad times do happen upon good people, they typically get through them, instead of lingering there. This would merely encourage those who would otherwise be inclined to live off the dole to do otherwise.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by HSSC »

Let the goverment run health clinics for those without health care, now they go to the ER and people with insurance pay their bill. I would think that would push some of those people into looking for a job a little harder because those clinics would not have the same level of service as the private sector.

If you have worked your whole life and have lost your job and your health care, you shouldn't lose your home if you do have a health issue, COBRA. But without a job COBRA is tough bill/pill to pay for.

My parents private doctor closed his office last year and joined a group of doctors because he could no longer afford the insurance by himself. We need Tort reform in this country but that will never happen with Democrats in the driver seat and Tort reform would get rid of many of the mertless lawsuits lawyers file against doctors in this country because they see doctors as a fat cow so doctors have to pay big money to the insurance companies.

Lawyers contribute massive amounts of money to the Democratic party. Here is a nonpartisan web site to concure this fact: OpenSecrets.org
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

I think you are trolling sloppy.
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Sandcock wrote:I think you are trolling sloppy.
:roll:

Dem Plan:
-Costs $1.2 Trillion over 10 years according to the CBO
-Creates a Gov't run option
-Allows Illegal Immigrants to buy insurance from the Gov't
-Covers roughly 1/2 of all current uninsured
-Will cause Premiums to increase in price according to the CBO
-No cap on lawsuits and any legislation doing so is discouraged
-Prevent insurers from denying coverage based on medical history
-Increases the number of people eligible for Medicaid

Repub Plan:
-Costs $61 Billion over 10 years according to the CBO
-No gov't option
-Covers only a few million of the uninsured right now
-Will cause premiums to decrease in price according to the CBO
-Allows people to buy plans from other states
-Caps malpractice awards

Those are the main differences. Guess which stands zero chance of even seeing the floor?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/opinion/06fri1.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... axes_N.htm

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/05/g ... 8-billion/
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

Sandcock wrote:I think you are trolling sloppy.
Just trying to fit in. :cry:
Trying to figure out why nobody dissagreed with me though. Sad thing is those things MIGHT be in the bill, might not, nobody here knows...yet.

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

You are good to go bro. stick to your guns :wink:
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

I haven't herd anything about a per pill plan :?: I do know the current healthcare sytem sucks on the RX & Pills @ hospitals :roll: My Father In-Law was in the hospital for a couple of days recently :( He has RX from the VA he takes daily. The Hospital said he could not take his pills [-X he had to take their pills @ $2,500 for 2 days worth :shock: Medicare etc... would not cover this expense either #-o It's not just the Health Insurance companies :? It's the whole system :evil: You can't charge high prices for Health Insurance if Health Care isn't expensive in the first place #-o

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by MattV »

Sloppyduner wrote:
Sandcock wrote:I think you are trolling sloppy.
Just trying to fit in. :cry:
Trying to figure out why nobody dissagreed with me though. Sad thing is those things MIGHT be in the bill, might not, nobody here knows...yet.

DOOM DOOM DOOM!!! DOOOOOOOM!!!! Doom doom...DOOOOOOM!!!
Even the people voting don't know what's in it. It's over 2000 pages long.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Astro »

Wasn't there something about Pelosi using a special rule to avoid the "Reading of the Bill" :?: I think it's part of the usual proceedure, but she found a way around it :shock: Simple straight forward reform in all segments of Health Care is needed =D> Congress doesn't understand that sometimes more is less :? I don't mean less coverage just less Bureaucracy, Waste & Fraud [-X We can cover more people with better care for less money, but the government can't get out of it's own way to do it :^o

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

Astro wrote: We can cover more people with better care for less money
How would THAT plan work? Seriously. How can we cover more people for less? [-o<

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

You allow cross state competition which creates competition for the insurance companies. Competition will cause the price of a product to go down because companies want you to buy their product. Also, co-ops (or a large consortium of consumers) can cause the price to go down. That is how the gov does it, i.e. the gov allows its workers to choose from many companies. For example, think of how you buy a car. You are going to shop around to find the best deal. Shopping and competition is the key to getting the best deal.

Tort reform is a must. There are too many frivolous lawsuits. That will cut costs.

Medicare needs a thorough audit. Fraud within the system is a problem. See here: http://www.kusi.com/features/turko/69735902.html

There's also the possibility that you can be fined and jailed for not having healthcare insurance per here: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php ... go-to-jail
Get a warm and fuzzy from here (I know you won't like the front end of the interview, but listen to the Prez as he talks about penalties):http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=9039241 Where is the freedom? He's stating a mandate for everyone to have health insurance. Are you ok with the gov being a big brother in your life to this magnitude :?:
The real egalitarians are not the people who want to redistribute wealth to the poor, but those who want to extend to the poor the ability to create their own wealth, to lift themselves up, instead of trying to tear others down. Earning respect, including self-respect, is better than being a parasite. Thomas Sowell

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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Sloppyduner wrote:
Astro wrote: We can cover more people with better care for less money
How would THAT plan work? Seriously. How can we cover more people for less? [-o<
Um, that's not a "plan", Sloppy, it's something you have to have a "plan" to do.

Seriously. :roll:
Sandcock wrote:You allow cross state competition which creates competition for the insurance companies. Competition will cause the price of a product to go down because companies want you to buy their product. Also, co-ops (or a large consortium of consumers) can cause the price to go down. That is how the gov does it, i.e. the gov allows its workers to choose from many companies. For example, think of how you buy a car. You are going to shop around to find the best deal. Shopping and competition is the key to getting the best deal.

Tort reform is a must. There are too many frivolous lawsuits. That will cut costs.

Medicare needs a thorough audit. Fraud within the system is a problem. See here: http://www.kusi.com/features/turko/69735902.html

There's also the possibility that you can be fined and jailed for not having healthcare insurance
per here: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php ... go-to-jail
Get a warm and fuzzy from here (I know you won't like the front end of the interview, but listen to the Prez as he talks about penalties):http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=9039241 Where is the freedom? He's stating a mandate for everyone to have health insurance. Are you ok with the gov being a big brother in your life to this magnitude :?:
You brought up good points with references which will obviously provide more, better care for less money. Living in San Diego and having spent a lot of time in ERs, I would also suggest you don't allow illegals to get insurance and when they show up in an ER, treat them on their way back home.

Unfortunately, things like tort reform, cross state competition and enforced citizen-only coverage are not going to happen with the current administration and government bodies.

From your link:
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is prepared to jail any American who does not buy a qualifying health insurance plan if the healthcare bill she sponsored (H.R. 3962, as amended) is passed into law.

...

On page 118, we’re told that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will inform us what exactly a “qualified plan” is and how much we’ll have to pay for it.
Go do some homework, Sloppy. Then come back and troll again, Mkthx. :roll:
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Reid Considers Payroll Tax Hike for Health Care - FOXNews.com


Considers?

My *****! They won't be able to pay for it WITHOUT raising our taxes, WTF is he talking about "considering"???

I bet Sloppy has some sort of justification why it's ok, don't ya, Sloppy? :roll:

Let socialism ring! #-o
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

Rekd wrote:I bet Sloppy has some sort of justification why it's ok, don't ya, Sloppy?
I can make a justification for most anything. One thing I can't justify for myself is putting thought to text so someone could argey it or respond with a roll eyes emoticon.

Its rekd way or no way. You know who else had that frame of mind...Hitler.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Sloppyduner wrote:
Rekd wrote:I bet Sloppy has some sort of justification why it's ok, don't ya, Sloppy?
I can make a justification for most anything. One thing I can't justify for myself is putting thought to text so someone could argey it or respond with a roll eyes emoticon.

Its rekd way or no way. You know who else had that frame of mind...Hitler.
I see you haven't done your homework, Sloppy. Afraid to find the truth? Or do you already know it and just don't want to admit what you believe in? Just sayin'.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sloppyduner »

Rekd wrote:I see you haven't done your homework, Sloppy. Afraid to find the truth? Or do you already know it and just don't want to admit what you believe in? Just sayin'.
Is there a quiz? Why do I need the answers? Whos giving me the test? If I do know what you think I should know, and feel the same way about it, would that make you feel better? Then what? Would that make the world a better place? Maybe for you but not for me.

What I know. Once again
Health care is screwed up.
I'm somewhat Christan.
Christens are suppose to be "Christ like". Christ healed. Christ was sympathetic to most, even those who could be called "the scum of the Earth".
If I could help someone I would.
This country was founded by Christians
The right claims to represent Christians.
Yet the right thinks Christ was a socialist.
Then if I'm a socialist too so be it. I'm good with it.
Just say'n
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

Me thinks you are confused sloppy. I'm a conservative that happens to be a Christian. In know way do I or none of the Christians I know think Jesus was a socialist :shock: I believe and the people I know believe that Christians and other organizations should help the poor and those that need help. That happens and is a fact. However, I believe that the government should stay out of our lives as the government tends to mess things up. I believe that we are headed towards Marxism and socialism under this administration, which by definition is the oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class; and a political theory advocating state ownership of industry. Government controlled/ran healthcare fits Marxism. Control of GM and Chrysler, and the desire to control the banks is socialism. Christianity does not fit the definition of either one.

There have been and still are whackos that claim to be followers of Christ and are not. It is a shame that the Left always wants to pin Christians with Hitler, White Aryans, and the like. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Rekd »

Yet the right thinks Christ was a socialist.
No. They don't. [-X :roll:

I don't remember hearing about Christ taking from one to give to another under threat of jail for refusing. But that's Ok I suppose. There's a difference between socialism and charity. Charity is voluntary. Socialism is thievery.


Me? I believe that we have already lost nearly 1/2 of what was left of our freedom and our prosperity in the last couple hundred days because of socialists. Look at what's happening in Utah.

If we get the government run healthcare shoved up our asses along with the governmental control of the financial institutions, auto makers, banks etc, we'll be done. We will be a society entirely run by it's government. We'll all be broke, so issues like keeping Glamis open won't matter. You won't have to worry about paying for red or green stickers. Everything you have will go to the greater good.
Sloppyduner wrote:Then if I'm a socialist too so be it. I'm good with it.
Quoted for posterity.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by MattV »

Sloppyduner wrote:
Rekd wrote:I see you haven't done your homework, Sloppy. Afraid to find the truth? Or do you already know it and just don't want to admit what you believe in? Just sayin'.
Is there a quiz? Why do I need the answers? Whos giving me the test? If I do know what you think I should know, and feel the same way about it, would that make you feel better? Then what? Would that make the world a better place? Maybe for you but not for me.

What I know. Once again
Health care is screwed up.
I'm somewhat Christan.
Christens are suppose to be "Christ like". Christ healed. Christ was sympathetic to most, even those who could be called "the scum of the Earth".
If I could help someone I would.
This country was founded by Christians
The right claims to represent Christians.
Yet the right thinks Christ was a socialist.
Then if I'm a socialist too so be it. I'm good with it.
Just say'n
Many people have this misunderstanding. Jesus did not advocate people's earnings being forcibly taken from them by government to spread around as it sees fit. He requires of us that we assist one another out of love for one another. Assisting each other does not necessarily have anything to do with money. In fact, I would argue that Jesus would say simply handing someone what they need may be more harmful to them than teaching them how to earn it on their own, even though it may be a more difficult or even painful process. God has given every person unique, individual talents and abilities and expects us to use them. Why would he endorse a system that stifles these as socialism does?

God expects us to be good stewards of what we have been entrusted with. Read Matthew 25: 14-30:

14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.

19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'

21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'

23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

(A talent was a monetary unit at the time)

This could be taken as an endorsement of capitalism. Notice that I did not say an endorsement of greed. God also tells us that he expects much from those he has blessed with much. In other words those of us to whom things have been given have a duty to preserve and expand them so that they may be of greater service to their fellow man. For the most part, government, over-taxation and everything that goes with it seems to be the antithesis of this.

Perhaps I have been overly theological here, but if we are going to bring biblical teachings into this debate, I think it is important that we know what they are.
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

Post by Sandcock »

Well done (said) my good and faithful servant :wink:
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Re: Call today Healthcare Bill vote expected

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MattV. I have nothing to say or add. You have spoke volumes.
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