Feinstein FOR OHV?

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Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Sloppyduner » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:13 pm

Its here

I don't trust her BUT...BUT if this goes thru the OHV areas set aside in IF PASSED, this bill will take an act of congress to take our land, NOT a CBD law suit.

I hear the wording in it could make it easier to take away our riding area than to take away the thermal energy. But we're included. YES OHV users given SOME land... by Feinstein. :shock:

I wasn't baiting anybody I was wondering what would happen when THIS bill came out. How would the far right (we will never back ANYTHING this woman puts out) people. Will this devide the OHV community? This is what I heard about at Pomona. This is the thing that got me thinking How can we, the off road community, come together when a Democrate tosses us a bone like this? Will we pick it apart and look for reasons to hate it and help defeat the chance to have OHV trails included in this bill OR will will be get behind someone who has screwed us in the past?
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:55 pm

I just read through this proposed California Desert Protection Act of 2010 eariler tonight and I must say I was skeptical all the way through. I keep waiting for the "sock it the stomache" and looking for the hidden language that would make this something that was just too good to be true. I got to admit I'm still thinking there has got to be an angle.

Now its not all good. This does have language that will make some wilderness areas the way we know them. Closed to most every type of activity.

For the most part though, this Act does specifically state that Off-Road activity will still be allowed in the named areas on roads, routes, and trails. This is what it says in Title VI: Vinagre Wash Special Management Area (which is the area around Indian Pass Wash, East of the ISDRA):
Fenstein wrote:Permitted uses would be hiking, camping, mountain biking, sightseeing, hunting, off-highway vehicle use on designated routes and horseback riding.
That same paragraph goes on to say this (which makes me wonder, loophole?):
Fenstein wrote:Prohibited uses would include new mining, permanent roads, commercial uses, or activities that would preclude the potential wilderness areas from becoming wilderness in the future.
[Definition of Preclude: to prevent the presence, existence, or occurrence of; make impossible]

There is also specifics on a timeframe of when theses roads, routes and trails be designated.

I'm going to need to read through this at least a couple more times to be comfortable. We been burned too many time, but so far, this is looking like it could be a good thing for off-roaders. I hope.

Doc, Have you read it? What are you hearing from the other DAC members?
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:24 pm

Something else I've been thinking about since reading this is that there is A LOT of things this Act requires the Dept Of Interior, Secretary, BLM, Forest Service, etc to do. What if these agencies don't do what they are required to do, many in a specific time frames? That is a downside.

Talk is starting on the web:

http://faultline.org/index.php/site/item/cdpa2010/

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=251956
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Sandcock » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:38 pm

I'll wait and see what the BRC has to say about it. And yea, this right winger doesn't trust or like her. It's not just about the dirt, more importantly its about our freedom and culture that she and her cronies are ever trying to change.

Waiting for your personal attack :wink:
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:01 pm

What is your beef with the far right? What about you, what do you think Sloppy Duner? :roll:
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Sloppyduner » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:23 pm

Sandcock wrote: Waiting for your personal attack :wink:
[-X That would be against the rules [-X
HSSC wrote:What is your beef with the far right? What about you, what do you think Sloppy Duner? :roll:
I'm against "far" everything.
Heres a bill that SAYS its setting aside land for OHV use. Its put out by a person who has screwed OHV users. Months ago I threw out the hypothetical about someone from their side throwing us a bone. Is THIS that bone? Thats ALL I want to know.

LoBee Thanks for taking the time to look thru this. Doc no doubt will have some interesting things to say about this as I KNOW he has read through it. Hes the one that told me about some launguage in it that gives them the ability to shut us down without cause. But there is verbage in it that gives other the ability to fight to keep their steak.

Either way it is something I think deserves LOTS of looks.

There is a group out there that has, in their by-laws, that they will NEVER support ANY item Feinstein puts out. IF...IF this does infact set trails, in certain areas, in stone, Why shouldn't we, as off roaders get behind it? Because its Feinstein? MAYBE she has seen the light or something. Maybe shes using our trails to keep a project she doesn't want out of a certain area.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:31 pm

Maybe I missd the part about the reopenning of the 49,000 acres of Glamis.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:33 pm

Sloppyduner wrote:
Sandcock wrote: Waiting for your personal attack :wink:
[-X That would be against the rules [-X
HSSC wrote:What is your beef with the far right? What about you, what do you think Sloppy Duner? :roll:
I'm against "far" everything.
Heres a bill that SAYS its setting aside land for OHV use. Its put out by a person who has screwed OHV users. Months ago I threw out the hypothetical about someone from their side throwing us a bone. Is THIS that bone? Thats ALL I want to know.

LoBee Thanks for taking the time to look thru this. Doc no doubt will have some interesting things to say about this as I KNOW he has read through it. Hes the one that told me about some launguage in it that gives them the ability to shut us down without cause. But there is verbage in it that gives other the ability to fight to keep their steak.

Either way it is something I think deserves LOTS of looks.

There is a group out there that has, in their by-laws, that they will NEVER support ANY item Feinstein puts out. IF...IF this does infact set trails, in certain areas, in stone, Why shouldn't we, as off roaders get behind it? Because its Feinstein? MAYBE she has seen the light or something. Maybe shes using our trails to keep a project she doesn't want out of a certain area.
Sounds hopeful, where have I heard that word before.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Rick Bowen » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:58 am

Maybe the 49,000 acres metioned in the summary are the 49,000 acres of dunes currently closed. Will become wilderness.

I don't trust her.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by jhitesma » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:26 am

The catch is pretty easy. OHV's only on designated routes. Look at the area east of the tracks and the situation there right now. It's "limited use" which is the currently designation for "use only one designated routes".

The catch is, they still haven't designated the routes in any kind of usable way. The only maps available are out of scale, and unspecific so there's no way to tell which routes are actually designated.

Once this passes all they have to do is fail to designate any routes and blammo - full closure. Or like the area east of the tracks just continually drag their feet on meeting the requirements - it's not "closed" on paper...but you still can't use it because they haven't followed through on their side of the bargain.


Sorry. But until we get something hard and concrete back I can't support anything that locks more land from the public or that has an even half way decent chance of leaving a backdoor that can lock land away. Our side has compromised on the short end since this fight began. It's time to put our collective foot down and stand our ground united.

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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Sandcock » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:48 am

exactly right Jason.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Rekd » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:04 am

She's going to close a million acres to in a remote area to OHVs and renewable energy while maybe half-assedly protecting 5 OHV areas and that's a good thing?

I smell a rat.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:20 pm

Rekd wrote:I smell a rat.
We all need to keep sniffing.

Jason is right on and that is my concerns as well. There are provisions in the proposed Act to indentify and designate the routes. I'm hearing that groups of people that frequent, and live in the Millers area have GPS'd the routes and have discussed this with Fenstein's people.

I saw a map of the intended areas on Monday and the ISDRA was not part of this. I don't have and haven't found a copy of the map yet.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by d_sheffs » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:16 pm

you can sum it all up by the response from the CBD.

are they staying quiet, not complaining abou thow this will devistate habitat?

I have no doubt FineSwine is working hand-in-hand with these eco-nazis. If anyone here thinks she is doing ANYTHING to open more land, you are KIDDING yourself. :^o

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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:52 pm

Title VI: Vinagre Wash Special Management Area

Designates a “special management area” covering a total of 76,000 acres in eastern Imperial County in order to conserve, protect and enhance plant and wildlife management as well as nationally significant ecological, recreational, archeological, and cultural resources. The area also contains approximately 49,000 acres of potential wilderness and approximately 12,000 acres of former private land donated to the federal government for conservation.

And there is nothing we can do . Because Democrats have something called real power. And thats what I've been talking about. #-o
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by ChuckZilla » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:19 pm

d_sheffs wrote:you can sum it all up by the response from the CBD.

are they staying quiet, not complaining abou thow this will devistate habitat?

I have no doubt FineSwine is working hand-in-hand with these eco-nazis. If anyone here thinks she is doing ANYTHING to open more land, you are KIDDING yourself. :^o

Nobody is kidding themselves. I don't think the bill even calls for opening more land. It calls for changing the status of certain areas. I'm not a proponent of this bill as I haven't read it completely and probably wouldn't be able to conclude with any certainty if the bill is "safe" for off-roaders.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:58 pm

Removed posts detracting from this topic. Please keep it on track.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:23 pm

I have the complete proposed Act (178 pages) and a map in PDF and a Summary in Word. I will try to get them uploaded somewhere ASAP for everyone to access.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by MattV » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:47 am

Without seeing the text of the bill, it's hard to say. My fear is that this simply cedes the congressional authority to designate wilderness in the area that is included, to the Department of Interior. If that were to happen, all that would be required for all 900,000+ acres to become wilderness, is an administrative order from the Secretary of Interior.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by Astro » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:15 am

Be careful of exsisting & designated routes wording :? If they say it doesn't exsist it doesn't no matter what your old map says or how many years you've been going there #-o As far as supporting something Fienstien supports...you have to be careful, but if the legislation is good (I'm not saying this is without more research) we should support it no matter who's bill it is :wink: That being said we can't let anything that makes it easier to designate Wilderness or Defacto Wilderness Areas than it is today [-X

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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:06 pm

xxxx
Last edited by HSSC on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by LoBuck » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:22 pm

HSSC, you better go back and re-read in full what you quoted Sloppy on. What he is asking/saying is; What will the far right say about this proposal from Feinstein? Will they back it, look at it, or turn away just because it has her name on it?

As of now, from what I can tell, the verdict is still out. Heck there isn't much of a committed reaction to it from any political direction, Right, Moderate, or Left.

Once you do re-read it I'm confident you will edit or at least explain what you posted. It definately doesn't reflect on the quote in any way I can see.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by HSSC » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:08 pm

I think we are doomed. There is a very good chance the 49,000 acres are going to become willderness. It is called political power. Something I've been talking about for sometime now.

60 SENATORS , HOUSE MAJORITY , AND ODUMA .

That is the formula. Republicans/conservatives/BUSH have never had that amount of CONTROL/POWER.
Democrats have. This is their third go around.

All they have to do is vote this piece of trash legalization in. PUT ALL OFFROADERS IN A BOX LEGALIZATION , that is all it is. :cry: Good Luck.
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by tomjeeps2 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:05 am

Feinstein FOR OHV?

Who knows, but I'd feel better about if if we made a good showing against Boxer in 2010, demonstrating an ability to influence elections would increase the likelihood of it...TJ [-o<
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by gelwell » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:40 am

tomjeeps2 wrote:Feinstein FOR OHV?

Who knows, but I'd feel better about if if we made a good showing against Boxer in 2010, demonstrating an ability to influence elections would increase the likelihood of it...TJ [-o<
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Re: Feinstein FOR OHV?

Post by ChoppedLiver » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:42 pm

One thing you need to remember is back in 2000 when we lost the 49K acres, the rumor was that Feinstein was upset because the deal (her deal) was make for the wilderness area north of 78 in exchange for the area south for OHV use. The area north of 78 was closed in the 70's but it wasn't always classified wilderness. Seems strange though that she'd re designate some already closed areas wilderness and then designated existing OHV areas "permanent"??

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