And we wonder why...

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L&L Corvairs
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And we wonder why...

Post by L&L Corvairs »

There will never be peace in Middle East.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35794859/ns ... stn_africa

Isreal will do what ever the hel_ it wants to, and screw the rest of the world. What ticks me off is, it's OUR men and women's blood that is being spilled over there so Isreal can continue to be asshats to the Palistinians.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sandcock »

My apologies
Last edited by Sandcock on Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sloppyduner »

Not that I like Iran, but I would laugh my arse off if they launched a missle over there to take out oh say about 1600 newly built and unoccupied houses.
What a bunch of cocky twits. Why do we defend them again? Is it still that German thing?
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Sandcock wrote:I'm not going to argue with you, but you are wrong.

Respectfully, that doesn't mean much. That's like saynig, "I know the world is flat, but I'm not going to debate the facts about the world being round.".
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by gelwell »

Sloppyduner wrote:Not that I like Iran, but I would laugh my arse off if they launched a missle over there to take out oh say about 1600 newly built and unoccupied houses.
What a bunch of cocky twits. Why do we defend them again? Is it still that German thing?
We defend them because of the large Jewish population here and yes the german thing. You have to go back to your history. After the Jews lost to the Romans, a jewish state was none existant. About at this time Jews began migrating to Western Europe for more favorable living conditions. For about a 1000 years there was no Jewish identity as a nation. The Palestinians inherited the land of David, as conqueror after conqueror came and gone. Then whole "German Thing" came and after WWII, Jews began their own homeland movement. Probably from being tired of being pushed around after many centuries and no place to go. After WWII, Palestine was under British control since the end of WWI. The Israelites had to fight not only the Palestinians but the British too. The state of Israel was born in 1948.

If you want to point to a definitive historical moment that change the world as we know it, came with the event of the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand in Serbia that launched WWI. That single event change our world to this day. Since with the start of WWI affected Germany's loss and the subsequent bringing of Adolph Hitler, Holocaust etc. Also the carving up of the middle east after WWI to reflect the different Arab and Persian cultures from the defeated Ottoman Empire to create the arab states as we know them today.

So you see Slop the reasons are many but based upon history and cultures. But I have to agree with L&L I dont think there will ever be peace in the middle east ever. Based more on religous difference than anything else.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Nice summation, gelwell.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by gelwell »

L&L Corvairs wrote:Nice summation, gelwell.
Thanks I am good for something. I guess I was one of those kids that paid attention in History class. Of course reading the daily rag daily doesnt hurt either, since history is being made every day. Not to mention I rather watch the history channel more than anything else on TV.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sandcock »

Lloyd I apologize for my harsh statement. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and I'm sorry for cutting you off at the legs.

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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by HSSC »

If I was going to live somewhere in the middle of that place???? Where would you live????
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Dennis AKA Walter »

HSSC wrote:If I was going to live somewhere in the middle of that place???? Where would you live????
I would have to ask why :?: Not by choice I hope......Not a safe place to dune. It is a war zone .... always has, always will and in all ways.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sandcock »

A perspective (it's a long read for some):
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-crisis?page=0,0
Shortly after Obama took office, Rahm Emanuel was quoted in the Israeli press insisting that a Palestinian state would be created within Obama's first term.
Source:The New Republic
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by HSSC »

If.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by gelwell »

Sandcock wrote:A perspective (it's a long read for some):
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-crisis?page=0,0
Shortly after Obama took office, Rahm Emanuel was quoted in the Israeli press insisting that a Palestinian state would be created within Obama's first term.
Source:The New Republic
Doubt it since Obama will be a first term president according to Dick Cheney
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sandcock »

I guess that some of us would hope that DC's predictions are right. The Middle East is unpredictable and I seriuosly do not think peace will happen. Especially if the only viability for peace is the annilation of Israel.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by Sandcock »

A very interesting article from the American Thinker: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/ ... oward.html
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by FunRunner »

If Israel goes down, I think Iran will go with it....the whole region is a political quagmire, the one positive thing about being in Iraq, is that we were strategically placed with our finger on the pulse of terror and political activity...but being in the center of the caldroun, like being in the center of the storm, is hazardous duty. Fighting the big war on terror there, and keeping the breeding ground and fostering nations, off balance, is likely better than dealing with attacks on the homeland....no guarantees, but a strategy that merits strong consideration for support. Keeping the terrorist from going elsewhere, like Africa, is another problem, but it seems the main activists, come from the Middle East.

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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by HSSC »

Israel will not go down. They know how to get the job done. I'm on their side. They are a free state. The United States is run by a bunch of clueless amateurs. ( Oduma )
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by L&L Corvairs »

Sandcock wrote:A very interesting article from the American Thinker: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/ ... oward.html
Respectfully, that’s a propaganda piece. The author, who is reviewing a book written by Jews, is also Jewish. Based on that article, there is no solution. What she (they) are claiming is: The Jews and the Muslims can’t live with each other. Someone has to go.

Articles (and books like the one reviewed) are used as justification for Israel to continue to do what ever the heck it wants to, because, ‘observant’ Muslims condemn all non-believers. There is no peace possible with the Muslims, therefore, there is no need to try and find one. It also places all the blame for the continued strife in the Middle East on the Muslims, painting the Jews as innocent victims. I call BS. 100% BS.

And here’s the key….she stated ‘observant’ Muslims, she did not say ALL observant Muslims. Which means that there could be just as many ‘observant Muslims’ that do not condemn all non-believers. Just as there are many ‘observant Christians’ who do not condemn all ‘non-Christian’ believers world wide. (Or Jewish ones etc.) She can’t make the claim that 100% of all Muslims desire the demise of all non-believers world wide, because she knows it’s not true.

The Christian faith, through the ‘interpretations’ of the bible by religious leaders, has been used as the justification for some of the ugliest, bloodiest epochs in human history. (ya know, like the Crusades and the Inquisition). The authors of the book, (and the article) are using THEIR interpretation of the Koran, with a snippet here, and a snippet there, to make their case that all Muslims hate everyone else and no peace can ever exist between the two.

Finally, IF in fact, it is true, that the Muslims and Jews can never live in peace, then it is even MORE important for the United States to get our troops out of there and let them settle this RELIGIOUS conflict (because, according to the book/article, that’s what it is) by themselves. It should make absolutely NO difference to us who, ultimately, is occupying that piece of real estate. It is NOT part of this country. OUR blood shouldn’t be spilled there for anyone’s ‘RIGHT’ to exist.

Alternatively, if we are going to pick the Jewish side in a religious war, then let’s be upfront and honest about it. Let us admit that’s what we are doing and let’s get in there and annihilate the Muslims like we did the American Indians. Let’s get the job done, so we can quit expending such a large amount of our taxes and GNP on this conflict.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by gelwell »

L&L it is not that necessarily dont disagree with the above commentary. The muslim and jewish worlds will never ever be one as stated. The whole Coexist idea is moot between these 2 factions, who by the way trace their roots to Abraham. The father of monotheisetic religion. So you would think they could find some common ground. Unforturnately that is not or will not be the case.

The only problem I see with your theory, is if we let the Jews battle it out with the muslim world we will see the Armeggdon prophecy become reality. Simply Israel is outnumbered, further the last battle in Lebanon with Hamas was a draw. Israel didn't really kick buttocks as I thought they would and Hamas in Lebanon while wounded still exists. Therefore being outnumbered and cannot really win a conventional war will resort to the use of nukes, they say they dont have. Once someone uses nukes, especially in the middle east will initiate a world wide nuclear war. And that wont be good for anyone. Because once it starts then people who have nukes will feel obligated to start lobbing in nukes to settle old scores. Pakistan and India probably would take advantage of the opportunity. We would have to stare down Russia and China to prevent them from lobbing some at us and cover Israel's back at the same time for that scenario to succeed. But there are enough Muslims living in Western Europe and Asia to continue the fight. You would literally have to take out the whole culture/religion world wide on a holocaustic scale.

Remember Bosnia? Apparently the muslims dont. The world went in to stop a holocaust from happening with the systematic killing of muslims. What did we get in return? Terrroism and more of it. WTC, Britains and Spains subway attacks, Australia Bali attacks etc. That's the thanks we get. Now I am not so sure the Croatians and Bosnians were wrong. I dont think the Israelis are either
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by L&L Corvairs »

I have to disagree with most of your nuclear scenario. Yes, I think Israel would use the nukes, if pressed. Most likely against Iran. But if we were merely bystanders, just watching and not involved with Israel at all, I don’t see China or Russia throwing nukes at us just because Israel did so to Iran. Also, I don’t see Russia as a major military threat right now. Their economy is too weak and they are too fractured politically.

China, by engaging us in any type of military conflict would be taking their WEE-WEE out and stepping on it. Not only are we one of, if not THE biggest customer they have for their commercial industry, but we also OWE them BILLIONS. They won’t give us an excuse to repatriate our debt.

Finally, we are still the Big Dogs, when it comes to military capability, including nukes. Not one of the countries you mentioned could stand toe to toe with us and win. And they know it.

Gelwell, I don’t see a solution in your argument. The logic is just as circular as the article that Sandcock posted.. What is the long term goal? This ‘war’ has now lasted as long as WWII. Are we to have United States military personnel dying over there in perpetuity? I don’t disagree that it may be impossible to make peace with the radical Muslims in Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East. If that’s the case, then lets admit it and move on. Either by leaving them to their own devises, OR by wiping them out. But this limbo we are in now is no better then Vietnam.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by gelwell »

L&L Corvairs wrote: it may be impossible to make peace with the radical Muslims in Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East. If that’s the case, then lets admit it and move on. Either by leaving them to their own devises, OR by wiping them out. But this limbo we are in now is no better then Vietnam.
Thats the problem leaving them to their own devices. The radicals are imposing violence on the world already civilians and military are being killed. If we admit it to the radicals they will continue to impose their violence upon the world, they're not going to go away. So by admitting it and moving on I dont see as a option since its a no win for us. We are playing a nice guy war especially in Afghanistan. The enemy uses their own people for propaganda, shields and intimidation to win their guerrilla war. Hiding in womens burquas then accusing us of demeaning their women when we search them. They use this tactic for suicide bombing. They will use anything to make us look bad even though they committ the atrocity.

As you said it might be impossible to make peace with radical muslims, I am saying it is. To them, they will not be happy even if we denounce Israel. Because the only good infidel is a dead one.
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Re: And we wonder why...

Post by HSSC »

So how long now has Israel had the bomb? How many do they have? If I were them, on that little slice of land, I would keep the trigger close. Just how long would the Palestinians restrain themselves if they had the bomb? And when Iran gets the bomb, how long before the currant leadership would pull the trigger, to the dismay of the vast majority of the people of Iran?

If I were King I'd pull most of out troops out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, let those people sort things out and park the Ronald Reagan off shore and give cover to a highly trained force of enforcers ( 15,000 + - troops ) to police those countries. We need to keep a handle on Pakistan and not let the bomb get into the wrong hands. Invest in drones and keep those poeple on the defense.

This moron president ( Oduma ) we have, giving out our nuke numbers, just shows what an idiot he is. The last thing a person does when playing poker is to show your opponent your hand. For now, we have most of the aces, but the way things are going how long will that be the case? #-o D'oh.............
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