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HDTV Help

Post by Wolfpack »

Just had Verizon FiOS tv hooked up. Video quality is excellent on my non-HD sets. Adios, Comcast, Time-Warner, whoever you are today!! You've hosed me long enough!! It was hilarious when I turned my boxes back into them. The lobby was full of happy, smiling, soon to be former customers turnin' their stuff in, too.

I'm in the market for an HD set. I've gotten the HD DVR box offered by Verizon so I'm good to go there.

You folks have suggestions on a set? I think my range is in the 40 to 50 inch or so, under 3 grand neighborhood. I've been to Best Buy and Costco a few times lookin' and I just come out with a headache, there are so many choices.

I thought I wanted a DLP set, but with fast motion there is a bit of fuzziness around fast moving images to me. I have also heard about an effect referred to as "rainbowing"? Some see it, some don't.

I have concern on plasma (awesome pic) that they poop out before too long. True? Not true?

So that leaves LCD & CRT. I think.

Your help would be appreciated.
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Post by BHenry »

I have had HD at home for almost 3 years now. I am also a professional audio visual technical director, who's primary area of expertise is video and projection (been doing this for over 13 years now). When I bought my set, the LCDs, Plasmas and DLPs were still more than double what I paid for my CRT rear projection set. IMNSHO, CRT still has the best picture quality. The weakest attribute of all the other technologies is black level. CRT is the best, plasma and DLP both produce a dark grey, and LCD is usually a lighter grey This become really noticeable on black and white movies, and movies with lots of night time or other dark scenes; the image details disappear, and most of what you see is a dark smear.

The fuzziness you said you saw on DLP sounds more like image smear, which is much more common to LCD. DLP does have a rainbow effect, mostly due to the use of a color wheel (usually most noticeable when not looking directly at the set, or moving your head back and forth quickly). The image smear may have also had something to do with the signal being fed to the display. 1080i has a slight advantage over 720p here, as interlaced images are updated twice as fast as progressive images.

Another critical factor is how much ambient light you have in the room where the TV will be located. The more ambient light, the better LCD displays look. CRT works better where the room can be dimmed, as does Plasma. If the room seating arrangement is wide though, LCDs don't have as wide a viewing angle, so the image quality suffers for the people sitting off to the extreme edges of the room.


One of the best resources I have come across is Home Theater Magazine. They have well written articles (in laymen's terms) about HD, monitors, and the different display technologies. Hope this helps!
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Post by Woodglue »

Oh geez Bryan! :shock:
I'm beginning to understand your aforementioned headache Wolfpack! :shock:
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Post by crash »

Check these guys out. They aren't the cheapest, but I HAVE used them quite a bit and customer service is great.

http://www.tigerdirect.com

I think they currently have a Panasonic 42" HD plasma under $1300. Not bad.

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Post by Wolfpack »

BH: Thanks for the insight.

WG: Extra strength Tylenol kinda' takes the edge off.

Crash: Wow, they have a lot of stuff and there is some incredible prices on some stuff.

Between Tiger, Best Buy, and Circuit City it's too bad I don't have a couple more brands to choose from:

Audiovox, Casio, Curtis, Daewoo, Epson, GPX, Hewlett-Packard, Hisense, Hitachi, InFocus, Insignia, JVC, Konka, LG, Magnavox, Maxent, Mitsubishi, Olevia, Optoma, Panasonic*, Philips, Pioneer, Polaroid, Prima, RCA, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Spectra, Sylvania, Symphonic, Toshiba, Viewsonic, Vizio, Westinghouse, Zenith

Kaawoooompff (sound of me hitting the floor). :shock:

*Edit: Crash has one I missed
Last edited by Wolfpack on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by crash »

I have a 42" Panasonic non-HD TV on in front of me all day. I just don't think you can go wrong with either Panasonic or Pioneer.

Stay away from ANY of the stores out of New York area. Customer service is notoriously horrible. I didn't listen and learned the hard way.

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Post by LoBuck »

Good luck in your search Wolfpack.. you're going to need it.

I have a 61" Toshiba TheatreWide rear projection and I love it!

My best advice would be to go to the stores and look for what you like. Then look up your top contenders on cnet.com for their reviews.

Here is another place to get a lot of info: High Def Forum
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Post by Glamisbound »

I bought a 42" HD plasma set last year after narrowing it down between LCD and Plasma. I ended up with the plasma for two reasons. 1. They are a bit cheaper than LCD. 2. I felt the color was much more vivid.

Draw back is that plasma consumes much more power to operate. Mine actually doubles as a heater for my family room :lol:
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Post by Wolfpack »

Mr. BHenry, my existing set is a 50" Mitsubishi rear projection, 3 gun deal. That's CRT, right? No? Or is the CRT we speak of the basic old school TV that's been around since the beginning of TV? The big single tube sucker?

I am partial to Mitsubishi. Mine and my brothers have been very decent. I thought I wanted a Mitsu DLP, but the image smear deal has knocked me back to square one. That's not Mitsu's fault though, right? It's a quirk of the technology.

So, plasmas run hot, huh? Did not know that. Heat is usually not good on stuff.

What's a guy to do with a decent, unwanted, non-HD big screen? It's been really good to me, but time to say good bye to it. Works fine. Watchin' it right now. I'd hate to just deep six it. Anybody lookin' to buy a used one in SW Riv Co.?
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Post by Barley101 »

I did a lot of research on the subject when I finally ponied up for HD earlier this year.. all the research I'd done online.. and in mags lead me to the Sony 50' SXRD.. It's Sony's version of DLP technology called LCOS..

All the research I did told me this was the one to get

I was stuck between the Sony SXRD and the Samsung DLP.. liked both pictures a lot.. brought the wife in to make the final decision.. and she liked the 'case' of the sony better... we couldn't be happier w/ the decision! It's been great to date!

I don't have nearly the experience BHenry does on the subject.. but I did work in the Video Dept at Best Buy for a year or so through college.. and my advise.. Pick the one that YOU think has the best pic!! When working there.. I'd show people what I thought was the best pic.. they didn't like it.. I'd talk w/ people looking at what I thought was the worst.. they thought was the best...

Due to the limited trials of most these technologys.. and the fact that the DLP type's use a bulb that can burn out and is quite expensive to replace.. I'd recommend the additional warranty that they always try to sell you.. in this case, I think it's worth it.. most electronics no.. but here.. I'd recommend it...

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Post by LoBuck »

Wolfpack wrote:So, plasmas run hot, huh? Did not know that. Heat is usually not good on stuff.
Heat is not a problem as long as its disapated. Based on Glamisbound's post it sounds like it does that.
Wolfpack wrote:What's a guy to do with a decent, unwanted, non-HD big screen? It's been really good to me, but time to say good bye to it. Works fine. Watchin' it right now. I'd hate to just deep six it. Anybody lookin' to buy a used one in SW Riv Co.?
When I bought the HD set I moved my old 55" SD rear projection (Toshiba also) in the master bedroom to replace a 27" tube TV (Magnavox). Its a BIG TV for a bedroom, but now that its been in there for a year my family would miss it if it wasn't there. Our master bedroom became the 2nd family TV room. :lol:
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Post by BHenry »

Wolfpack wrote:Mr. BHenry, my existing set is a 50" Mitsubishi rear projection, 3 gun deal. That's CRT, right? No? Or is the CRT we speak of the basic old school TV that's been around since the beginning of TV? The big single tube sucker?

I am partial to Mitsubishi. Mine and my brothers have been very decent. I thought I wanted a Mitsu DLP, but the image smear deal has knocked me back to square one. That's not Mitsu's fault though, right? It's a quirk of the technology.

So, plasmas run hot, huh? Did not know that. Heat is usually not good on stuff.

What's a guy to do with a decent, unwanted, non-HD big screen? It's been really good to me, but time to say good bye to it. Works fine. Watchin' it right now. I'd hate to just deep six it. Anybody lookin' to buy a used one in SW Riv Co.?
Correct the old Mitsu you described is a CRT set. All of our video images are made from three primary colors (red, green, blue), whihc is why you see older sets with three lenses. If you ever have the opportunity to see a 3 chip DLP (such as at "digital" theaters), you can see what this technology can really do.

I also agree with Barley's assesment of Sony's SXRD technology. I had a chance to see the demo of their new digital cinema projectors using SXRD, and the pictures were phenomenal (of course, these were professional projectors costing $90K apiece, without a lens)
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Post by jhitesma »

One thing to remember when evaluating in store....bring your own source material that you know well and don't be afraid to calibrate. If the store has a problem with that...keep shopping...somewhere else.

I'm REAL picky about all things visual. Photos, Tv's, monitors...it's just my nature having majored in visual communications while in college. I was trained to be picky :D (of course I'd say it was more of a refinement since I was picky before.)

When I got my last TV I brought a copy of "Video Essentials" (A MUST have if you want your setup to be top notch...and they now have a hd version) and spent a good 10-20 minutes at each TV I was interested in with the color bars up getting it tuned "just right". Then in went a few of my favorite DVD's for comparison purposes.

I'd also stay away from places like Best Buy and Circuit City when shopping...they're too bright. You can't properly evaluate a TV with that much light around. I went to speciality shops that had nice dark viewing rooms and even nice dark showfloors similar to the light I'd be viewing it under at home.

I had my choices down to a Sony Wega and a Toshiba....the Toshiba was less than half the cost and for the most part the picture was just as good if not better. There was one minor problem though. There was a noise pattern visible in the screen when a lot of blue was being displayed. Took me about 10 minutes before I convinced the salesman it was there but eventually he saw it too. We tried a few other Toshibas and they all did it so we doubted it was just a problem with that floor model. The Wega was nice...but I really didn't want to spend that much.

I ended up talking them into giving me $150 off on the Toshiba AND in writing they modified the return policy to my request so I would be able to return it at zero cost if I was unhappy with it once I got it home....AND they tossed in an extended warranty for free too. Out the door I payed less than I would have online at the cheapest place I could find (for the same model) before shipping.

That's just another benefit of shopping at the right place. A big box store isn't going to be able to let you properly evaluate the TV, nor are they going to be able to deal with you like that. They MAY let you load in a DVD of your choice and they MAY let you get the controls adjusted so you're dealing with a level playing field. But those are both big ifs.

Before buying I highly recomend getting a copy of Video Essentials and watching it through a few times (as well as calibrating your current TV.) I did that in anticipation of buying a new TV....but after calibrating my old TV I found it was still a LOT better than I thought and put off the new one for almost two years with no regrets. (Then the top 2" of the old TV went dark and I had no choice!)

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Post by Wolfpack »

GREAT stuff. Keep it coming. The score so far is:

Made the cut and went home:
BH: Unk Brand & Size Rear Projection
LB: Toshiba 61" TheaterWide Rear Projection
GB: Unk Brand 42" Plasma \ room heater
B101: Sony 50" Wega SXRD Rear Projection

Honorable Mention:
Panasonic 42" Plasma
Samsung DLP
UNK LCD
Sony Wega (twice, price seems to have nixed it)

Considerations:
High ambient light: LCD
Low Ambient light: CRT and Plasma
High Viewing angle: CRT
Low Viewing angle: LCD

1080i better than 720p

I see some ads touting 1080p. Is that a typo, or is that Progressive vs Interlaced?

With cable or sat TV pretty much the deal everywhere, wouldn't just a monitor work? Are they available with multiple inputs? Why pay for a tuner when the box's tuner is used, not the set's?
Last edited by Wolfpack on Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jhitesma »

Just for the record...my comments are on TV's in general and not necessarially limited to HD.

I haven't popped down the cash for an HD set yet since frankly I don't have a source for HD material. I don't have cable, I shut off my dish (when they took away my ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX even though I can't get them off the air), and I'm not about to choose sides in the HD DVD battle.

So my Toshiba is a 34" (IIRC...maybe a few inches bigger or smaller...it's about 6 years old now and I'm not good at remembering numbers for more than a few seconds.) non-HD and doesn't quite fit into the discussion.

But HD or not evaluation of the image quality is pretty much the same and having good viewing conditions and properly set color/contrast/brightness/sharpness... is critical to make sure you're comparing apples to apples and not falling for a salesguy who funked up the settings on a great value to try and trick people into shelling out more for something else so he'll get a bigger comission.

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Post by BHenry »

Wolfpack wrote:I see some ads touting 1080p. Is that a typo, or is that Progressive vs Interlaced?
That is correct. At this point, its mostly hype (only Blu-Ray DVD currently outputs 1080p). ABC (including ESPN and its other subsidiaries) and Fox broadcast in 720p, while the other majors broadcast in 1080i. I don't see them paying to upgrade again so soon (unless they partner with some manufacturer wanting to sell more sets).
Wolfpack wrote:With cable or sat TV pretty much the deal everywhere, wouldn't just a monitor work? Are they available with multiple inputs? Why pay for a tuner when the box's tuner is used, not the set's?
Yes, this is true. I have a Sony 46" monitor, with a standard analog tuner (no DTV/HDTV tuner). When I upgraded to it, I also upgraded my satellite service. My box has both the satellite tuner, and an OTA (broadcast) digital tuner. The external boxes aren't as common anymore though, due to the FCC rollout of requirements for TVs to have the tuners integrated. Also, if you have cable, they now have a Cable Card (similar to a PC card for a laptop) that allows you to use the internal tuner, and the Card takes care of the decoding, based on your subscription level.

Depending on where you live, one of the biggest MYTHS is that you NEED cable or satellite to receive HD. For example, in the LA market, if you can receive channels 2-14 (and more importantly 15-69), then you can get HD FREE. The FCC has mandated that all analog broadcasts will cease on February 17, 2009. In LA, all channels now broadcast digitally (though not all broadcast in HD), and several of the majors have split up their channels (creates more ad revenue opportunity, but can affect the quality of the primary (HD) channel).
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Post by Glamisbound »

At this point, its mostly hype (only Blu-Ray DVD currently outputs 1080p).
True, but more and more DVD's are coming out in this format. BTW, the picture in this format is exceptional. If you have a choice, go with the 1080p, especially if you watch a lot of DVD's

I sold my 54" Sony projection at a garage sale for $400. I was pretty stoked with that. You could also try Craigslist.com...

And based on Jason's long post, I think you should just hire him to go out and shop the set for you... :lol: Jason's HD TV Shopping service, Inc.
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Post by LoBuck »

BHenry wrote:Also, if you have cable, they now have a Cable Card (similar to a PC card for a laptop) that allows you to use the internal tuner, and the Card takes care of the decoding, based on your subscription level.
A word of caution on cable cards. They do not provide complete access to most "TV guides & schedules" that cable companies converter boxes do. There also may be other functionality that will be lost with a cable card vs the converter box. This could include access to pay-per-view and video-on-demand. Do your homework to make sure which is going to fit your needs.

Another consideration for using a cable converter or satellite receiver is that they are available with DVRs (Digital Video Recorders) built it. This along with the "TV guide" will give you "TIVO" type recording ability. Most boxes have dual hard drives so you can record while watching, or record 2 programs at the same time.
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Post by BHenry »

LoBuck wrote:
BHenry wrote:Also, if you have cable, they now have a Cable Card (similar to a PC card for a laptop) that allows you to use the internal tuner, and the Card takes care of the decoding, based on your subscription level.
A word of caution on cable cards. They do not provide complete access to most "TV guides & schedules" that cable companies converter boxes do. There also may be other functionality that will be lost with a cable card vs the converter box. This could include access to pay-per-view and video-on-demand. Do your homework to make sure which is going to fit your needs.

Another consideration for using a cable converter or satellite receiver is that they are available with DVRs (Digital Video Recorders) built it. This along with the "TV guide" will give you "TIVO" type recording ability. Most boxes have dual hard drives so you can record while watching, or record 2 programs at the same time.
Thanks for the clarification Glenn. I am on satellite, so I don't have direct experience with cable.
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Post by Wolfpack »

Glamisbound wrote:And based on Jason's long post, I think you should just hire him to go out and shop the set for you... :lol: Jason's HD TV Shopping service, Inc.
No doubt! He and BHenry should charge for their advice.

I still haven't picked one out yet. :-k
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Post by BHenry »

Wolfpack wrote:
Glamisbound wrote:And based on Jason's long post, I think you should just hire him to go out and shop the set for you... :lol: Jason's HD TV Shopping service, Inc.
No doubt! He and BHenry should charge for their advice.

I still haven't picked one out yet. :-k
LOL in a way, I already do, its how I make a living :)

If you do need some help Wolf, let me know, as I am also in SoCal.
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Post by Wolfpack »

FWIW: I just pulled the trigger - finally.

Sony 55" WEGA SXRD. Not in stock, but will be delivered and set up in 3 days. Can't wait. :D I went with a big box store (Best Buy). Price dropped $200 overnight to $2,099, then the guy knocked off the $50 delivery and set up fee, too. Against my usual inclination, I bought the extended warranty as well.

The wife reminded me that we bought the Mitsu the week before Superbowl also - about 10 years ago.

Thanks for the help in picking one out.
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Post by crash »

Wolfpack wrote: The wife reminded me that we bought the Mitsu the week before Superbowl also - about 10 years ago.
I'm sure that's just coincidence. :roll: :wink: :D

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